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post #131 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

-snip-
And finally, yes it does have better controls, but think also of the benefits of an iPad as well: you can plug your iPad 2+ into your HDTV or HDMI-compatible monitor and output the game at 1080p (if the app and your TV/monitor supports it of course), and have the device itself turn into the controls and display other information with the entire screen just for the game.

Touch controls will never be better than physical controls, because tactile feedback/being able to feel the positions of the buttons is essential to gaming without looking at the position of the controls frequently, it's like a keyboard - you get used to the position of the keys based on tactile feedback and the feel of the keys.
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post #132 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

That's not necessarily true because it's not only price, but sales too, that determine how much profit a company makes from a game. I'm speculating here, of course, but it's possible, due to the sheer size of the user base -- not only as it is now, but as it will be in a couple of years as well, that a good quality $10 iOS or Android game will make a developer more profit than they might make on Vita with a $40 title. (I do agree, that Vita will have titles with far better stories, gameplay, and graphics though, as you say they'll be miles apart, but I see that changing with the 600 series.)
That aside, I see mobile technology advancing rapidly, and every year there's a large quantity of new devices adopting this technology. But how often will Sony replace a portable gaming console? Every three years?
The next major break through in graphics for mobile devices will be the PowerVR 600 series which boasts an absolutely amazing improvement with little to no increase in power, a technology I hope Apple's able to adopt for the iPad 3 and iPhone 5. The iPad 3 is only a few weeks away, and if it does use a PowerVR 600 series GPU it'll trump the Vita graphically, and if it uses two of them, it'll outright hammer it. As you said, a dedicated gaming console isn't bottlenecked by APIs and other overheads, so it'll always perform significantly better with the same hardware, but will it be able to keep up with the rapid rate of improvement in technology -- I'm not so sure.
To add to your point about the size of games, any app that supports the retina display provides both 1x and 2x sized images separately, adding to the size, and as well as that, many support the iPad too. I'm not sure the resolution of the Vita, but even if an app only supported the iPad, even with Infinity Blade graphics, I'd expect nothing larger than 550MB.
And finally, yes it does have better controls, but think also of the benefits of an iPad as well: you can plug your iPad 2+ into your HDTV or HDMI-compatible monitor and output the game at 1080p (if the app and your TV/monitor supports it of course), and have the device itself turn into the controls and display other information with the entire screen just for the game.

It is less about the graphics quality IMO, games on the iPhone are catering for a different crowd. Not sure how to describe it but I have both devices and games on the iPhone just don't compare. Take a game like Infinity Blade and now actually let the player explore the area and walk around rather than making it linear with simplified battles, and then make it have 10x more content, voiceovers, etc, and let them do it with physical tactile controls AND a multi-touch screen (two of them in fact). If I remember right Infinity Blade was around 1.4GB and I played through it in about 30 minutes, each time it repeats is really no different. I only paid $6 for it so that is about what I expected. Just saying, nothing I've ever bought for my 4S or iPad2 compares to the experience on the Vita, and even with a retina super-powered iPad 3 that's not going to change. Mobile phones and tablets can do some cool stuff, and overall are much more useful, but when it comes to games the dedicated gaming device wins hands down. However, the fact so many people are comparing the mobile phones to a Vita is a bad sign the people will not get the appeal of the Vita, which will hurt sales, and sadly push game developers more towards simpler, and smaller games for touch screens.
Edited by lordikon - 2/16/12 at 9:51pm
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post #133 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by ressurrectin View Post

Touch controls will never be better than physical controls, because tactile feedback/being able to feel the positions of the buttons is essential to gaming without looking at the position of the controls frequently, it's like a keyboard - you get used to the position of the keys based on tactile feedback and the feel of the keys.
That's true, but it's still possible to have a good gaming experience with touch controls, especially if the actual touch screen device is only a control, and the actual game is output to a TV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

It is less about the graphics quality IMO, games on the iPhone are catering for a different crowd. Not sure how to describe it but I have both devices and games on the iPhone just don't compare. Take a game like Infinity Blade and now actually let the player explore the area and walk around rather than making it linear with simplified battles, and then make it have 10x more content, voiceovers, etc, and let them do it with physical tactile controls AND a multi-touch screen (two of them in fact). If I remember right Infinity Blade was around 1.4GB and I played through it in about 30 minutes, each time it repeats is really no different. I only paid $6 for it so that is about what I expected. Just saying, nothing I've ever bought for my 4S or iPad2 compares to the experience on the Vita, and even with a retina super-powered iPad 3 that's not going to change. Mobile phones and tablets can do some cool stuff, and overall are much more useful, but when it comes to games the dedicated gaming device wins hands down. However, the fact so many people are comparing the mobile phones to a Vita is a bad sign the people will not get the appeal of the Vita, which will hurt sales, and sadly push game developers more towards simpler, and smaller games for touch screens.
What you described is exactly the kind of game I see coming to iOS eventually. Graphics that are better than in Infinity Blade 2 (which won't be hard considering it runs at 25-30 FPS on an SGX535), a large free to roam world, with quests and so on -- and all with support for 1080p output to a TV or monitor.

The problem right now is we don't have enough iOS devices that are graphically powerful to warrant the focus in development (on those more powerful devices). That will change as more and more powerful iOS devices are released, and the iPad 3 with a PowerVR 600 series chip will be a good start.
Edited by steelbom - 2/16/12 at 11:56pm
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post #134 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

The problem right now is we don't have enough iOS devices that are graphically powerful to warrant the focus in development (on those more powerful devices). That will change as more and more powerful iOS devices are released, and the iPad 3 with a PowerVR 600 series chip will be a good start.

The fact that the Vita will, hopefully, not be updated for a few years is actually supportive to the gaming community, as programmers will have a much longer time to get their games to market and will enjoy profits for longer. They won't have to worry about forwards compatibility or new systems and games taking over each year as the tech evolves.

This is partly why most games on phones are shallow/cheap, it is a semi-risky environment to invest in and no one is going to spend years developing a game for something changing so fast.
post #135 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedShades View Post

The fact that the Vita will, hopefully, not be updated for a few years is actually supportive to the gaming community, as programmers will have a much longer time to get their games to market and will enjoy profits for longer. They won't have to worry about forwards compatibility or new systems and games taking over each year as the tech evolves.
This is partly why most games on phones are shallow/cheap, it is a semi-risky environment to invest in and no one is going to spend years developing a game for something changing so fast.
You make some good points, but I've seen over the last couple of years a significant improvement in games on iOS. Right now, the fact that there's so many devices with a single core processor and an SGX535 is really limiting the kind of graphics we're getting in games, as a developer will target the largest audience possible.

When devices start getting more powerful GPUs like the PowerVR SGX600 series, developers will have a lot more power to play with, and we'll see a lot better graphics because of it. I'm looking forward to whatever Epic Games has been working on for the iPad 3, at least I hope they've been working on something.

As devices become more powerful and the focus in development shifts to the more powerful devices, I believe we'll see a lot more effort put into games.
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post #136 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

That's true, but it's still possible to have a good gaming experience with touch controls, especially if the actual touch screen device is only a control, and the actual game is output to a TV.
What you described is exactly the kind of game I see coming to iOS eventually. Graphics that are better than in Infinity Blade 2 (which won't be hard considering it runs at 25-30 FPS on an SGX535), a large free to roam world, with quests and so on -- and all with support for 1080p output to a TV or monitor.
The problem right now is we don't have enough iOS devices that are graphically powerful to warrant the focus in development (on those more powerful devices). That will change as more and more powerful iOS devices are released, and the iPad 3 with a PowerVR 600 series chip will be a good start.

I actually think it would be impossible to have a good time gaming on a full screen TV using a smartphone touchscreen as a controller, in the action you'd have to look away from the TV to see the controls since theres no tactile feedback, or risk pressing the wrong place on the screen.
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post #137 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by ressurrectin View Post

I actually think it would be impossible to have a good time gaming on a full screen TV using a smartphone touchscreen as a controller, in the action you'd have to look away from the TV to see the controls since theres no tactile feedback, or risk pressing the wrong place on the screen.
I seemed to do all right a couple of days ago when I gave it a go. It's certainly more difficult than physical controls, for sure.
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post #138 of 259
sounds good
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post #139 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

I seemed to do all right a couple of days ago when I gave it a go. It's certainly more difficult than physical controls, for sure.

After reading some reviews and the only downside to the vita is "No Video Out" and i loled........
post #140 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by xAtLx View Post

After reading some reviews and the only downside to the vita is "No Video Out" and i loled........

Why? Because there is no need for video out on a handheld?
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