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post #191 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by consume View Post

So over the course of 2 years the developer was able to only make 23 million in an ecosystem that's eversogrowing (you also have to wonder, how much of that revenue was actually profit?), where the psp, as obscure as you'd like to think, had games were able to make that much on launch day. Gotcha.
First off, it's 30 million, and it was in the first year. Proof a PSP game was able to make 30 million in a day? I find that hard to believe.
Quote:
And oh god are you actually referencing this game http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/batman-arkham-city-lockdown/id459850726?mt=8 ? It's like 45 minutes long and not even really a game. If that's what you consider gaming I don't even know what to say. I guess this is proof that people will flock to whatever is "in", even if it's not logical.
Yes, I am, but I'm not really sure what you were thinking I was saying about it? I merely provided it as an example of a game which is using Unreal's engine, and a recent one at that. As I said, we're starting to see more games using their engine. I bought the game, and it looks pretty good graphically.

You seem to be ignoring the part of my posts where I say this is the direction I've seen them going. We're getting more and more better quality games as time progresses, and with Unreal's engine available for license now, that's going to increase even further as it'll be easier to develop good looking 3D games.

It goes for 45 minutes? What? Where'd you get that from?
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post #192 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by consume View Post

So over the course of 2 years the developer was able to only make 23 million in an ecosystem that's eversogrowing (you also have to wonder, how much of that revenue was actually profit?), where the psp, as obscure as you'd like to think, had games were able to make that much on launch day. Gotcha.
And oh god are you actually referencing this game http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/batman-arkham-city-lockdown/id459850726?mt=8 ? It's like 45 minutes long and not even really a game. If that's what you consider gaming I don't even know what to say. I guess this is proof that people will flock to whatever is "in", even if it's not logical.

While you are correct, you're looking at this from the perspective of the current console model where income is generated strictly on game sales. A lot of mobile revenue is made by adds, so the 23 million being strictly from sales is amazing for a 45 minute game on a phone or tablet.

The PS Vita has so much untapped potential as a multimedia device that it's only being held back by Sony's inability to conform to industry trends and standards. Don't believe me? Go look at the sales figures for the iPhone 4S, a technically inferior device that has embraced market trends and standards in order to appeal to a wide audience. Apple has the formula refined down to a very predictable science. Sony is still clinging to the traditional console model of the past with a few current features sprinkled on. It's simply not going to work this time.
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post #193 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

While you are correct, you're looking at this from the perspective of the current console model where income is generated strictly on game sales. A lot of mobile revenue is made by adds, so the 23 million being strictly from sales is amazing for a 45 minute game on a phone or tablet.
The PS Vita has so much untapped potential as a multimedia device that it's only being held back by Sony's inability to conform to industry trends and standards. Don't believe me? Go look at the sales figures for the iPhone 4S, a technically inferior device that has embraced market trends and standards in order to appeal to a wide audience. Apple has the formula refined down to a very predictable science. Sony is still clinging to the traditional console model of the past with a few current features sprinkled on. It's simply not going to work this time.
The "45 minute game" he's referring to is Batman Arkham: Lockdown, it's the Infinity Blade franchise made by Chair, which made 30 million in it's first year. There's no ads in any paid iOS app either.
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post #194 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

Yes, I am, but I'm not really sure what you were thinking I was saying about it? I merely provided it as an example of a game which is using Unreal's engine, and a recent one at that. As I said, we're starting to see more games using their engine. I bought the game, and it looks pretty good graphically.
You seem to be ignoring the part of my posts where I say this is the direction I've seen them going. We're getting more and more better quality games as time progresses, and with Unreal's engine available for license now, that's going to increase even further as it'll be easier to develop good looking 3D games.
It goes for 45 minutes? What? Where'd you get that from?

Might want to do some research before you post inaccurate information

Crtl F sales numbers

Oh, also

Oh and

Wait I forgot about this one too


I own arkham asylum lockdown and it's a short, buggy and terrible "game". And i'm not ignoring anything in your post. Bashing a handheld console based on the assumption of how your smart phone will end up a few years from now is silly, especially when something clearly better at doing this job is already out.
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post #195 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

The "45 minute game" he's referring to is Batman Arkham: Lockdown, it's the Infinity Blade franchise made by Chair, which made 30 million in it's first year. There's no ads in any paid iOS app either.

Quite true, but the majority of apps on the market make their money through the use of ads. Even though people are getting watered-down free games, the ads make those games profitable. Therefore, I guess what I'm trying to say is even though a game is free or cheap, that doesn't mean it isn't making some sort of revenue. Even though I listen to Pandora Radio on my smartphone in the car every day, I still have to wade through advertisements every 15-20 minutes, plus continual adverts on screen at all times. The only way for me to avoid this is to pay something like $40 a year for their service. However, at that rate, it more than covers the revenue lost from ads.
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post #196 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

While you are correct, you're looking at this from the perspective of the current console model where income is generated strictly on game sales. A lot of mobile revenue is made by adds, so the 23 million being strictly from sales is amazing for a 45 minute game on a phone or tablet.
The PS Vita has so much untapped potential as a multimedia device that it's only being held back by Sony's inability to conform to industry trends and standards. Don't believe me? Go look at the sales figures for the iPhone 4S, a technically inferior device that has embraced market trends and standards in order to appeal to a wide audience. Apple has the formula refined down to a very predictable science. Sony is still clinging to the traditional console model of the past with a few current features sprinkled on. It's simply not going to work this time.

Come on dude. You're beating a dead horse here. You and everybody else on this forum knows why the iPhone sells as much as it does. It's cool to have an Apple device. It's the trend right now. Apple is in the technological spotlight, just like motorola, palm and windows were before 2006. Apple can release almost anything and make an insane profit right now. You know it. Also, nowhere in any article does it say that the revenue wasn't generated by ads. Sony might be clinging to an old method but that's because at the moment, it still works. You can be hypothetical and say eventually, smartphones will take over the handheld gaming space, and that's probably true, there's nothing to argue there. But as of right now, it's still got large enough of a market to profit from. I get that the members of OCN sometimes think they represent the public, but you really don't.

BAH I GIVE UP. I've been defeated. You guys convinced me. I'm gonna go return my Vita, and spend all that money on some quality appstore games. Cya later.
Edited by consume - 2/19/12 at 9:59pm
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post #197 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by consume View Post

Might want to do some research before you post inaccurate information
Crtl F sales numbers
Oh, also
Oh and
Wait I forgot about this one too
I own arkham asylum lockdown and it's a short, buggy and terrible "game". And i'm not ignoring anything in your post. Bashing a handheld console based on the assumption of how your smart phone will end up a few years from now is silly, especially when something clearly better at doing this job is already out.
You've misunderstood what I've said, I didn't say Infinity Blade made 30 million, I said the Infinity Blade franchise, which includes Infinity Blade 2, as well as the book. I'm glad you posted that link though, as I can see the break down of what's what.

You may also have to point out to me where it says in those wiki links how much profit they made, the sales numbers are there but I've no idea how the games were priced. It's pretty safe to say it's a lot, but I don't know how much exactly.

I see. What device are you playing it on exactly? I'm just curious. I've only played it a little but I've found it to be quite fine so far although it does look quite repetitive. (I'm playing on a 4S.)

EDIT: Oh and I forgot to mention: I've not bashed the Vita at all? I've merely said I think in a few years smartphone and slates will overtake these types of devices, I never said the Vita wasn't good, I think it's quite cool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Quite true, but the majority of apps on the market make their money through the use of ads. Even though people are getting watered-down free games, the ads make those games profitable. Therefore, I guess what I'm trying to say is even though a game is free or cheap, that doesn't mean it isn't making some sort of revenue. Even though I listen to Pandora Radio on my smartphone in the car every day, I still have to wade through advertisements every 15-20 minutes, plus continual adverts on screen at all times. The only way for me to avoid this is to pay something like $40 a year for their service. However, at that rate, it more than covers the revenue lost from ads.
On the contrary, I'd say the majority of the apps on the market make their money from in-app purchases. The only games that are allowed ads are free, and although I'm sure some very popular ones will rake in a fair amount of money, I'd say it pales in comparison to the former, and even to popular games like Infinity Blade.
Edited by steelbom - 2/19/12 at 10:59pm
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post #198 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

It CANNOT be used as a phone. A phone has the ability to make and receive calls as well as well as text message and picture/video message via "Phone Numbers." Vitas are devices that use a closed system as a means for communication between each other, regardless of whether you have the 3G model or not. If a Vita had the full functionality of a phone, you can bet the price would have been at least $500 for the 3G model.
Really? They're both accessories designed for the mobile market. I fail to see how they are not competition for each other.
The 3DS's fanbase, games library, and backward compatibility with DS games basically ensures that the 3DS will be successful, much like it's predecessors. While the Vita is technically superior from a hardware standpoint, we've seen first hand from the Wii (the weakest console of this generation of consoles) that the console with the best specs doesn't necessarily sell the best.
The problem with the Vita, as Sylon pointed out, is that the device will live and die by its sales numbers; if the console doesn't sell, games companies will not develop for it. Again, based on market trends, I have a feeling that the Vita will not survive the ever growing and changing mobile market. As much as everyone doesn't want to admit it, the Vita is just another mobile device in a very crowded market. It will be made or broken by 3rd party support, and since it isn't compatible with a very large and continually growing market of Android, iOS, or Windows Mobile apps, that puts the Vita at a significant disadvantage compared to the rest of the market. If this device wants to live and thrive, it had better expand its appeal very fast, or it will not survive for long.
The DS and PSP emerged during a time when smartphones did not exist. Because of that, they were in a market of their own. This is not the case anymore. The mobile market is crowded and fiercely competitive. Convincing people that the Vita is worth $250 will be no easy feat. I'll go a step further and say that smartphones are NOT better for gaming by any means. I agree on this point... but good luck convincing the other 99% of the buying public of this.

a car gps is an accessory for the mobile market. you're saying the vita is competing with tomtom as well?

No, I don't think so. The vita is a handheld game console and is competing in the handheld game console market. Meaning it is competing agains the 3DS. Smartphones in my opinion are not real game consoles. they play games like angry birds. Saying angry birds is the same as a game like uncharted, is like saying console games are the same as flash games. By the way, the iPad is not even a hand held.

In response to the second part of your arguement, the Wii may have sold well in the beginning, but that was because it targeted a different audience. The wii targetted casual gamers, and it was successful in doing so. There are far more casual gamers or even non-gamers that would enjoy playing the types of games found on a wii, far more than there are "hardcore gamers" (or what I refer to as real gamers). The wii is no longer selling anywhere near as well as an xbox 360 or ps3. It was just a fad for casual gamers, and nothing more. It had a small number of real games, almost all of which were developed by nintendo.

Finally, I want to point out that the vita has been out for only a few months in japan, and barely a week in the US. The sales numbers so far are not enough proof that the vita will succeed or fail. Give some time for a more diverse selection of games to be released before jumping to concusions (such as a good rpg game).
Edited by melterx12 - 2/19/12 at 11:03pm
post #199 of 259
This thread has derailed. Rather than being about the Vita, and the reviews of it, it has become a thread about how some people think it's going to fail to smartphones. Whether it will fail or not, that's not really the point of this thread. I'm all for discussions like these, but maybe it could be moved to a thread that discusses smartphones vs Vita. People entering this thread looking for reviews and information on Vita are only going to find it in the OP, as the majority of the next 20 pages are discussions about smartphones vs Vita.
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post #200 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by melterx12 View Post

a car gps is an accessory for the mobile market. you're saying the vita is competing with tomtom as well?
No, I don't think so. The vita is a handheld game console and is competing in the handheld game console market. Meaning it is competing agains the 3DS. Smartphones in my opinion are not real game consoles. they play games like angry birds. Saying angry birds is the same as a game like uncharted, is like saying console games are the same as flash games. By the way, the iPad is not even a hand held.
In response to the second part of your arguement, the Wii may have sold well in the beginning, but that was because it targeted a different audience. The wii targetted casual gamers, and it was successful in doing so. There are far more casual gamers or even non-gamers that would enjoy playing the types of games found on a wii, far more than there are "hardcore gamers" (or what I refer to as real gamers). The wii is no longer selling anywhere near as well as an xbox 360 or ps3. It was just a fad for casual gamers, and nothing more. It had a small number of real games, almost all of which were developed by nintendo.
Finally, I want to point out that the vita has been out for only a few months in japan, and barely a week in the US. The sales numbers so far are not enough proof that the vita will succeed or fail. Give some time for a more diverse selection of games to be released before jumping to concusions (such as a good rpg game).

A dedicated GPS is a mobile device that only has one purpose: get you where you tell it you need to go. Two things are wrong with your assesment.

1. A GPS has only one purpose. It cannot be used for anything other than that. It has no access to outside information other than the GPS satellites that it interfaces with. Thus it is a self-contained unit. By the very definition of the market, it is positioned to be non-competitive with other mobile devices simply because it is only designed for one task.
2. (subjective) A stand alone GPS is already outclassed by smartphones since virtually all smartphones not only have a GPS, but they also interface with the internet to get search results for locations in real time. A stand alone unit must have periodic map and location updates, while a smart phone does not need this as it always accesses an external database when in use.

Since the vita is positioned as an all-in-one media device (videos, pictures, music, internet, and complex games), it falls into a competitive state with smartphones. Like it or not, they are competitors. Now, if you remove the camera, 3G connectivity, GPS, Smartphone-like internals, and MP3 player, suddenly you have a device that DOES NOT compete with smartphones as it does not have similar features. It is now a dedicated gaming device, much like a stand alone GPS is a dedicated device. Also, I'm starting to get tired of the whole "angry birds" argument. Don't people realize that angry birds was a fad that is now dying? There are tons of other games and apps that are also very popular and far more complex than "Birds." I would appreciate it if you stop using that as an example because it does not represent where the gaming portion of the smartphone market is going. There are many far more entertaining games on the smartphone app market now.

An iPad is not a handheld you say? Wikipedia has a nice article on that. In fact, tablets are classified as a mobile device also known as a handheld. It even specifically mentions the iPad in the article.

Nintendo made a killing on the Wii because of the audience they targeted. Regardless of whether it was a fad or not, we now have the Playstation Move and Xbox360 Kinect which are both more advanced versions of the Wii's motion control system. The Wii revolutionized the world of consoles, believe it or not, and it would be foolish for either company to ignore this type of input control on their next generation of consoles. The Wii proved that the market does exist. If anything, Nintendo had absolutely no clue how successful the Wii was truly going to be, so they had no clue how to make good games for it.

With all of that being said, I guess we'll just watch sales numbers on the Vita. With any luck, my predictions about the Vita are wrong. I guess we'll see in the coming year or two.
Edited by Mad Pistol - 2/20/12 at 12:10am
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Intel i7 4790k Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 7 MSI Geforce GTX 1080 Ti Gaming X 16GB (2x8) Patriot Viper 1866Mhz  
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Seagate 3TB, WD 500GB HDD, WD 640GB HD Samsung 850 EVO 512GB Samsung DVD-Burner Corsair H110 w/ Dual Aerocool DS 140mm fans 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 10 Pro Dell S2716DG (1440p, 144hz Gsync) AOC U3477 PQU (3440x1440 IPS) Logitech G810 Orion Spectrum 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Evga SuperNOVA 750 G2 NZXT Phantom 530 Black Logitech G502 Proteus Core Corsair MM400 
AudioAudioAudio
Creative Sound Blaster E5 DAC/AMP Sennheiser HD 598 Headphones HyperX Cloud Headset 
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