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[TPU] Apple On Track for Trillion Dollar Valuation - Page 6

post #51 of 68
wow this thread has like 4 arguments in it, each between a few people and it is only on its 5th pg

also I can tell who has studied Economics and who has not

-doober
post #52 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle7412 View Post

It's not that gold is getting more expensive. It's that our dollar is becoming worthless.

lol i hope you are kidding

Gold IS getting more expensive, A. there is a huge growing global demand for it (India is largest importer now), B. it is an extremely limited precious metal with a highly limited supply (therefore the supply curve can rarely shift, but the Demand curve often can, causing rapid increases in prices), C.Like any other commodity it is currently experiencing a bubble and is bound to bust at any time.

-doober
post #53 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by robwadeson View Post

FYI, the US inflation rate is one of the world's lowest... about ~2% per year. so over 35 years, the US dollar's value only decreases by 50%.

You do realize that they changed the numbers that go into calculating inflation over the years right? When inflation is calculated using the old metric it is closer to 10% a year since 2008. They pick and choose what numbers get included to make the numbers look as favorable as possible. Just look at commodities, everything is going up at similar rates all because of a falling dollar. Keep in mind the reason the dollar hasn't fallen in relation to the Euro or other world currencies is that lots of countries try to peg their currencies value in relation to the dollar since it is the world reserve currency so as the dollar loses its value other central banks have to print money and devalue their currency as well to keep that peg. I could go much deeper into this but I probably have already said to much for OCN.
Edited by scyy - 2/16/12 at 10:04pm
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post #54 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkO View Post

A trillion dollars don't mean much these days.
Just compare how much your dollar was worth back in the Prohibition days and now.
Inflation.
.....
Don't mean mu...

Let's put this together:

1000x10^9.

One-thousand billion.
That's more than the GDP of most countries.
If my logic serves me correctly, that's enough to buy about 1,000,000 houses, at a price of $1m apiece. That's enough to house the population of san francisco.

If we work within today's values, it could fund the entire University of California system (all ten campuses, including endowments) for about 30 years.

Don't mean much? It can do a whole lot of lobbying, a whole lot of research, a whole lot of marketing, or a whole lot of just about anything. It means quite a bit, actually.
Edited by Escatore - 2/16/12 at 10:11pm
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post #55 of 68
As a student going into the mineral exploration industry soon I can assure you gold does not have a "highly limited supply".
You are correct in your statement that its demand is quite variable. The process of mining for gold is directly related to its commodity price as that determines the feasibility of projects moving from an exploratory phase to a production phase. Demand is just so high right now because everyone wants a commodity that has a tangible real world value for securities sake. If you want a good basis for a highly limited supply you need just turn to rare earth elements in which China has a near strangle-hold on production of until mines around the world open up in the next decade.

Also I love how many people think Apple is so valuable.
Several pages back someone brought up the actual assets that Apple has is no where near their market price.
If you don't know what this means is that Apple is massively over valued and is pretty much just like the credit bubble that no one in this generation will forget. I'm still surprised people are still buying Apple stock as its one misstep away from a horrible tumble.

So until Apple has the same amount of tangible assets as Exxon has they aren't very valuable in my eyes.
(Think on the order of owning a couple of drilling platforms, production platforms, auxiliary equipment/ships and all the refinery capacity)
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post #56 of 68
dosnt matter apple make it or not, i got no respect for apple.
post #57 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post

I'm not defending Apple's (well, Foxconn's labor conditions and treatment of employees), but really, how many countries have been decimated and lives lost over oil? We're talking people who have been brutally slaughtered so that politicians and the big corporate oil companies could make millions/billions of dollars.
The suicide nets wasn't because of horrible working conditions. They were put up because people were killing themselves to make their families wealthy (relatively speaking). Their suicide gave their families more money than they could ever earn, so, off they went. It had nothing to do with the actual working conditions (which is actually above Chinese standards). The reason the contracts came into play is because of the suicides, because of the payout. Now Foxconn won't pay out for suicide.
Don't be mad at Apple, be mad at the Chinese government for allowing such working conditions.


What what an immense excersize in rationalization, pretty pathetic. You'd fit right in with those who defended slavery as being a better existence for the slaves than their lives would have been in Africa.

Blame China? China isn't stupid, China KNOWS that Apple and ALL other countries/companie come to China because the crappy conditions lead to dirt cheap labor. China just exploits the capitalist system and it's apparent need to dehumanize and debase humans. If only we could be robots! and just work work work, with no internal quirks that make it impossible for us to ever be that way.

How anyone could be okay with a company making as much as Apple does, while the people who actually make their crap suffer in conditions we would all find abhorrent says something very profound about our culture, and the cowardice of our collectively consciousnesses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelbarrage View Post

As a student going into the mineral exploration industry soon I can assure you gold does not have a "highly limited supply".
You are correct in your statement that its demand is quite variable. The process of mining for gold is directly related to its commodity price as that determines the feasibility of projects moving from an exploratory phase to a production phase. Demand is just so high right now because everyone wants a commodity that has a tangible real world value for securities sake. If you want a good basis for a highly limited supply you need just turn to rare earth elements in which China has a near strangle-hold on production of until mines around the world open up in the next decade.
Also I love how many people think Apple is so valuable.
Several pages back someone brought up the actual assets that Apple has is no where near their market price.
If you don't know what this means is that Apple is massively over valued and is pretty much just like the credit bubble that no one in this generation will forget. I'm still surprised people are still buying Apple stock as its one misstep away from a horrible tumble.
So until Apple has the same amount of tangible assets as Exxon has they aren't very valuable in my eyes.
(Think on the order of owning a couple of drilling platforms, production platforms, auxiliary equipment/ships and all the refinery capacity)

Rare earth minerals are not rare... They are everywhere aren't they? They just require intense operations to mine them.. No one can compete with China on Rare Earth Minerals because China will and does heavily subsidize it's mining, making it way near impossible for any company to compete against China and be profitable.

Not only that, but Rare earth mining is a very dirty process, have you seen the mines in China that do it? Yikes.
Edited by Cesaro Summability - 2/17/12 at 6:46am
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post #58 of 68
The rare earth minerals are quite abundant in the crust but they are incredibly hard to liberate from their associated minerals.
The technology has been pretty much lost to all corporations that aren't chinese owned.
Yes rare earth mines are ravaging the chinese environment and it is quite a shame too.

Plus I would like to point out that Exxon and every other oil company that operates in other countries must hire from that specific country the people who will be running the oil or gas production.
This means paying for their education and paying them competetive wages within the corporate structure.

Apple's practices in china are some of the sleaziest out there.
They have enough influence to effect change and they should.
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post #59 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post

I find it hilarious that people like you get upset at people who aren't upset that Apple is making 30% profit for "wants" and oil companies are making 12% on "needs." BTW, it's not just 12% they're making, it's QUITE a bit more. In fact, their profits are more now than they've ever been, in history, ever. Considering they're spending 75 million a year just in lobbying, and that's 1/10 of 1% of their annual profits (that's for the Big 5).

Oil companies do not drive the market to the degree that you are imagining. An evil CEO isn't sitting in their lair with an abacus counting the pennies. As far as companies go, oil does not yield grossly inflated profit margins. They might take in very large amounts of income, but their cost of doing business (especially in the USA) is very high. Do not confuse income with profit. Not everything is an evil conspiracy.

http://ycharts.com/rankings/industries/Major%20Integrated%20Oil%20&%20Gas/profit_margin?s=calc&d=desc

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/08/gas-prices.asp#axzz1mg4woPJX
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post #60 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelbarrage View Post

The rare earth minerals are quite abundant in the crust but they are incredibly hard to liberate from their associated minerals.
The technology has been pretty much lost to all corporations that aren't chinese owned.
Yes rare earth mines are ravaging the chinese environment and it is quite a shame too.
Plus I would like to point out that Exxon and every other oil company that operates in other countries must hire from that specific country the people who will be running the oil or gas production.
This means paying for their education and paying them competetive wages within the corporate structure.
Apple's practices in china are some of the sleaziest out there.
They have enough influence to effect change and they should.

i do not agree with you on the gold basis, it is pretty rare check out these multiple links supporting the claim. If you took all the know mined Gold in the world it would only fill 2 olympic size swimming pools that is pretty low IMO.

links below
http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2010/11/19/how-many-olympic-sized-swimming-pools-can-we-fill-with-billionaire-gold/
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/01/gold/larmer-text/3
http://silverstockreport.com/2009/gold-pool.html
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?219852-All-Gold-Ever-Mined-%28155K-Metric-Tons%29-Would-Fit-In-2-Olympic-Swimming-Pools
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15825018
https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=63268&page=2
https://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&safe=off&site=&source=hp&q=gold+2+olympic+size+swimming+pools&pbx=1&oq=gold+2+olympic+size+swimming+pools&aq=f&aqi=q-bA1&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=444l9863l0l9942l50l41l7l0l0l0l160l3356l33.6l47l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=24b9eb7a531d2a7f&biw=1376&bih=799

yes there is rarer metals, but Gold should be around 800-1200 an oz based on waht ti costs to get out of the ground, soon the "FEAR" bubble will bust and a bunch of people will be left holding the bag like in the 80s when it spiked
http://seekingalpha.com/article/194587-gold-s-dramatic-rise-and-fall-in-1980s-why-it-s-important



I do however agree with your point about Oil Companies, they tend to have the smallest profit margins of any industry (i think 3-10%) it is just that their net income is so massive. Also Apple might not have that many assets, but the Apple name and Logo are worth no pun intended their weight in gold. Though Exxon and Shell's logo/name are worth a lot too.

mmm internet debates where there is no real winner-

doober
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