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[MPC] Apple Forces Pegatron to Drop Asus Ultrabook - Page 15

post #141 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by _GTech View Post

This only goes to show, in the business world, it's not "What you know" that is important, (like how to make an ultra cool ultra book)
but "Who you know" that is important...
With apples' Litigation team and their far reaching arm in the legislative sectors, it's obvious they know what buttons to press and who to call to throw a wrench in your nice little plans...
For the lulz??? <<< I"m not laughing on this one, sorry...
For the record, leaders "Do the right thing.", Apple is not showing themselves a leader here, they are using litigations to strangle innovation, and that's all there is to say about that.... I hate Apple, enough said...

Microsoft vs. Android
http://www.seattlepi.com/business/tech/article/Microsoft-using-dirty-tactics-against-Android-2262459.php

Microsoft vs. Linux
http://betanews.com/2007/11/01/mandriva-accuses-microsoft-of-dirty-tactics/

why isn't microsoft a leader?
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post #142 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

If Pegatron's decision was based on economies of scale, then they would not have supported other clients vs. Apple for such a long time--they have been a long-time smaller-scale manufacturer for Apple for a while. Nothing changed in the situation except them beginning to manufacture a competing product against one of Apple's. That's the situation. It's not a very difficult thing to figure out. Do you honestly think that Pegatron suddenly realized that it's more practical to support one entity vs. many? No. This is because Apple came to them and said "you need to stop or we're taking our business elsewhere" and they probably handed down a reasonable sum of money to offset the loss that Pegatron incurs in terminating a contract prematurely. This isn't about the potential of being a major manufacturer for the largest business in the world--Apple isn't asking them to be an exclusive partner, or to sever ties with any of the other companies that Pegatron is manufacturing for--only the one that brings direct competition to Apple's Ultrabooks.
You are stating that as though you know for a fact that somebody was handed money in exchange for adopting a different business direction. You are stating that bribery and coercion was at play here as a fact and I am saying that most likely it was not, but instead was a sound business decision on Pegatron's part to leave them an open door to becoming a larger manufacturing partner for Apple more than anything. It is even more likely that Apple enticed Pegatron with additional i-device business than any of the "facts" being shared here. The title of MPC "news" post is nothing short of sensationalist journalism. It is unprofessional and makes assumptions without hard evidence. If they ran an expose or a had a whistle-blower that can corroborate foul play on Apple's part (bribery, coercion, extortion, etc.) we would all have reasons to complain. As it stands right now we are complaining about a business decision, one that was made jointly between Apple and Pegatron, on Apple's initiative. That is all that is going on here. If you do not like the idea of "economies of scale" let's just say that Pegatron sees more business potential with Apple then they do with Asus/Intel Ultrabook deal (and rightly so) and as such have no incentive to continue producing Ultrabooks.

I realize that logical and rational explanations are not what people like to hear in emotionally heated debates. I also genuinely dislike Apple and their business practices but there is no proof of foul play here. The most likely explanation is a logical one and that is that dropping Ultrabooks just makes good business sense.
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post #143 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejanh View Post

You are stating that as though you know for a fact that somebody was handed money in exchange for adopting a different business direction. You are stating that bribery and coercion was at play here as a fact and I am saying that most likely it was not, but instead was a sound business decision on Pegatron's part to leave them an open door to becoming a larger manufacturing partner for Apple more than anything. It is even more likely that Apple enticed Pegatron with additional i-device business than any of the "facts" being shared here. The title of MPC "news" post is nothing short of sensationalist journalism. It is unprofessional and makes assumptions without hard evidence. If they ran an expose or a had a whistle-blower that can corroborate foul play on Apple's part (bribery, coercion, extortion, etc.) we would all have reasons to complain. As it stands right now we are complaining about a business decision, one that was made jointly between Apple and Pegatron, on Apple's initiative. That is all that is going on here. If you do not like the idea of "economies of scale" let's just say that Pegatron sees more business potential with Apple then they do with Asus/Intel Ultrabook deal (and rightly so) and as such have no incentive to continue producing Ultrabooks.
I realize that logical and rational explanations are not what people like to hear in emotionally heated debates. I also genuinely dislike Apple and their business practices but there is no proof of foul play here. The most likely explanation is a logical one and that is that dropping Ultrabooks just makes good business sense.

Here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.chinatimes.com%2Ftech%2F171706%2F122012021300277.html 
Apple moves! The industry came out, Asus ultraportable laptop Zen books (Zenbook), appearance and within institutions with Apple's signature product, the Macbook Air and high similarity, causing Apple dissatisfaction, and ordered by the Apple supply chain "choose sides".

It's google-translated from the Taiwanese newspaper that initially ran this story. I don't know how you define coercion, but that's pretty much how I have come across the use of the word.

If it were Pegatron making the decision to align more with Apple, that's one thing--but this is the opposite--Apple telling them to stop production on a competing project. You think Pegatron would want to prematurely terminate a revenue-generating contract on their own volition? That would be the most senseless business decision, especially given the consumer-popularity with the asus ultrabook, and how demands are far exceeding the supply rate at the moment. Not to mention that Apple only gave a small portion of their iphone manufacturing to Pegatron.

Here's the macrumors source summarizing the same story I think: http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/13/apple-reportedly-pressures-pegatron-into-ceasing-asus-zenbook-production/

I agree--it's a business decision, but not one initiated on the part of Pegatron. That's my point--not that these things don't happen elsewhere. But nothing in any of these stories point to this being done by Pegatron because they want to take on more iphone fab, or that Apple has decided to give them more business.
    
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post #144 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger187126 View Post

trip

Confirmation bias huh. I never called you a "fanboy", but if you feel you are then that is your choice. You just like to go up on arms once Apple gets any type of heat, but I will agree that there is a lot of confirmation bias, but you can't say its not just from the android or windows side. I have used iOS, and understand the system, I just dislike how clustered it feels. Now as for the reason I started this was because of the elitism that kikkO showed on his post. Have I said that android or windows is better than anything Apple makes? Have I said I don't own or utilize Apple products? I claimed I use an Evo and a windows laptop, I gave you just enough information to believe that I am bias towards what I use, but it doesn't mean I am. Wallet on my back right pocket, Ipod on my left back. I don't consider my non apple gadgets inferior to their apple counter parts, there is a reason I own them. Having someone generalize all non apple products as 2nd class, is a bit unprofessional.


Apple does use questionable business tactics, but a business will be a business.
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post #145 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

Here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.chinatimes.com%2Ftech%2F171706%2F122012021300277.html 
Apple moves! The industry came out, Asus ultraportable laptop Zen books (Zenbook), appearance and within institutions with Apple's signature product, the Macbook Air and high similarity, causing Apple dissatisfaction, and ordered by the Apple supply chain "choose sides".
It's google-translated from the Taiwanese newspaper that initially ran this story. I don't know how you define coercion, but that's pretty much how I have come across the use of the word.
If it were Pegatron making the decision to align more with Apple, that's one thing--but this is the opposite--Apple telling them to stop production on a competing project. You think Pegatron would want to prematurely terminate a revenue-generating contract on their own volition? That would be the most senseless business decision, especially given the consumer-popularity with the asus ultrabook, and how demands are far exceeding the supply rate at the moment. Not to mention that Apple only gave a small portion of their iphone manufacturing to Pegatron.
Here's the macrumors source summarizing the same story I think: http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/13/apple-reportedly-pressures-pegatron-into-ceasing-asus-zenbook-production/
I agree--it's a business decision, but not one initiated on the part of Pegatron. That's my point--not that these things don't happen elsewhere. But nothing in any of these stories point to this being done by Pegatron because they want to take on more iphone fab, or that Apple has decided to give them more business.
None of these stories actually provide any evidence however. It's all hear-say. Even the original story that you linked ran a story and not an expose or a whistle-blower piece. Did the prospect of losing Apple as a client influence Pegatron's decision? Absolutely. The question is how much of this decision was made as a strategic move following Apple's request? That's the point that I am arguing. You are taking a strong stand that it was all Apple, and that Pegatron basically folded and that was it. I am saying that this was a strategic decision and Pegatron did not fold as some would like to believe. Apple most likely offered the prospect of a better relationship to come if they agree to their demands. Couple that with the prospect of losing business and the fact that any Ultrabook business coming from Asus is likely to be relatively small and short-lived anyway you have every reason to agree to Apple's terms.

As to the "consumer-popularity with the asus ultrabook". I would strongly disagree with this. There is no consumer-popularity with the Ultrabook, not Asus, not anyone. Ultrabooks have not even been around enough to form a market of any sort, let alone become popular. They are still in infancy stages in every respect. Intel is just trying to carve out a market for Ultrabooks.

Again, I am not defending Apple. I disagree with this carrot and stick approach that they are most likely using, or worse yet stick only approach. You just have to be willing to think outside of the box though to understand that there are many dimensions to making a business decision. I would say that Pegatron probably made a good decision to terminate as you say "a revenue-generating contract on their own volition". Sometimes as a business you have to drop a client to win a bigger one. This is pretty standard practice, from small businesses to medium and large businesses. It stinks half the time and a lot of people feel bad or let down, but everyone has to live with it at the end of the day.
Edited by dejanh - 2/15/12 at 11:00am
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post #146 of 210
Clearly, Apple is worried about the success of the Zenbook. If it's not a "real" competitor to the MacBook Air, why would they bother telling Asus to stop?
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post #147 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by r34p3rex View Post

Clearly, Apple is worried about the success of the Zenbook. If it's not a "real" competitor to the MacBook Air, why would they bother telling Asus to stop?
Sure, maybe a bit. Primarily they want to avoid lengthy litigation and lawsuits that (knowing Apple) would surely ensue should the Ultrabook segment actually start seriously encroaching on Apple's market share. Also, they did not tell Asus to stop. They just approached a manufacturer and asked them to stop.
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post #148 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejanh View Post

None of these stories actually provide any evidence however. It's all hear-say. Even the original story that you linked ran a story and not an expose or a whistle-blower piece. Did the prospect of losing Apple as a client influence Pegatron's decision? Absolutely. The question is how much of this decision was made as a strategic move following Apple's request? That's the point that I am arguing. You are taking a strong stand that it was all Apple, and that Pegatron basically folded and that was it. I am saying that this was a strategic decision and Pegatron did not fold as some would like to believe. Apple most likely offered the prospect of a better relationship to come if they agree to their demands. Couple that with the prospect of losing business and the fact that any Ultrabook business coming from Asus is likely to be relatively small and short-lived anyway you have every reason to agree to Apple's terms.
As to the "consumer-popularity with the asus ultrabook". I would strongly disagree with this. There is no consumer-popularity with the Ultrabook, not Asus, not anyone. Ultrabooks have not even been around enough to form a market of any sort, let alone become popular. They are still in infancy stages in every respect. Intel is just trying to carve out a market for Ultrabooks.
Again, I am not defending Apple. I disagree with this carrot and stick approach that they are most likely using, or worse yet stick only approach. You just have to be willing to think outside of the box though to understand that there are many dimensions to making a business decision. I would say that Pegatron probably made a good decision to terminate as you say "a revenue-generating contract on their own volition". Sometimes as a business you have to drop a client to win a bigger one. This is pretty standard practice, from small businesses to medium and large businesses. It stinks half the time and a lot of people feel bad or let down, but everyone has to live with it at the end of the day.

Here's what I'm saying: If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. At best it's naive to assume it was some ho-hum fine and dandy clean business proposition given the context of the situation.

I'm taking a strong stand that it was Apple initiating this--which is true--but where in the reports implies the opposite? I can't change people who need irrefutable proof before they believe anything, but this isn't making some outlandish off-the-wall statements--it's connecting the dots--not a very difficult thing to put together. Do you really need someone from Pegatron's board to come forward and admit to everything that transpired? Of course that's not going to happen, but the way you're painting the picture is very naive. Your assumption of this being the case implies that Apple previously had MORE business to give to Pegatron that Pegatron couldn't initially handle--which has no historical precedent between the companies (why do you think Pegatron serves multiple contracts among multiple vendors?). Since contracted for iphone components, Apple only ever gave Pegatron a small volume of production.

Sure, you can say "well, maybe Apple suddenly has more business to give to Pegatron, and Pegatron accepted." Sure--okay. I can't disprove that. But that's also an incredibly naive outlook on the situation when the back story is that Pegatron had been manufacturing a direct competitor to one of Apple's products (the zenbook is actually a very strong competitor to apple's ultrabook lineup--it sells out of stock at a lot of the retailers in very little time--why would Apple even bring up the issue of the zenbook if they weren't concerned about it?), and suddenly stops production after an altercation with Apple. If you're asking me for the proof that Apple all but forced them to cancel their contract with Asus, of course I don't have that information--and no one with common sense on either Pegatron or Apple side of the fence would come forward with that info either. So of course neither of us can prove the others' story false.
    
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post #149 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

So of course neither of us can prove the others' story false.
Knowing Apple's history, current tactics, the odds are that Apple DID force Pegratron to drop the Zenbook.

Heck, Apple is going as far as suing Kodak over patent infringement related to digital cameras, printers, and digital picture frames.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1215746/9to5mac-apple-plans-to-sue-bankrupt-kodak

Only Apple has the nerve to sue the INVENTOR of the Digital Camera, and printers which Apple doesn't even make.

One day soon, I hope Karma bites Apple hard.
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post #150 of 210
stop whining
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