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A small correction regarding the laws of thermodynamics and convection. - Page 4

post #31 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesethunda View Post

having a rad as intake in the top of your case also highly depends on the physical location of your case, for example, if you have it near the floor of your room, it's going to be cooler than say if you have it on a dresser that's closer to the top of your room.
I can feel a physical temperature difference between the top and bottom of my room, so I can't put my rad as intake because it will draw hot air rather than cool air if i had it closer to the floor

Of course, there are little variations like that and I'm not saying top intake is always better but in some situation, exhausting from the top doesn't make any sense.
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post #32 of 108
You guys are arguing for something so minuscule...

I mean, If you have serious overheating problems then theres a problem, if looking at the hardware max allowable working temps set by the manufacturer you can say if you are overheating or not, right?

So lets say you have a piece of equipment that max recommended set by manufacturer is 70c (tops) for example..
If your system is overheating because you are overclocking then you are wasting time.. If you can overclock and stay within the manufacturer limit then thats a gain....


So, you run your system and you see that your temps are lower than 70c then that means you are within specs, right? In your regular use of that system you dont see the equipment getting higher than 70c... Thats normal and within specs, then thats fine... Even overclocked... Also, you have to take into considerations than equipment this days have also fail safes like throttling,e even he motherboard will turn off your pc for you if the temp goes above of what was set on the bios for example...

The only way i would get worry, if equipment (A) is overheating equipment (B) so that means there's something wrong there in this case not enough airflow/or dust/ even over voltage... Then i start looking into the situation...

What are the best temps possible you guys ask? Thats subjective into a question to an another person because of personal preferences...

I go with what the manufacturer allows... period... How hot is too hot? Read your manufacturer specs and you find the answer to your question right there, or google it is easy... XD If is withing specs then you are fine... Nothing to worry about...

Now my recommendation is:

1: Look the specs of your equipment and what are the manufacturer limits on temperatures...
2: Avoid bombarding your case with useless fans, avoid too many fans.... Less are better in the end...
3: You can always try under volting your equipment, you gain a lot more with this than expending $100 bucks on fans....
Edited by zGunBLADEz - 6/12/12 at 2:08pm
post #33 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zGunBLADEz View Post

You guys are arguing for something so minuscule...
I mean, If you have serious overheating problems then theres a problem, if looking at the hardware max allowable working temps set by the manufacturer then you can say if you are overheating or not and go with that, right?
So lets say you have a piece of equipment that max recommended set by manufacturer is 70c (tops) for example..
If your system is overheating because you are overclocking then you are wasting time.. If you can overclock and stay within the manufacturer limit then thats a gain....
So, you run your system and you see that your temps are lower than 70c then that means you are within specs, right? In your regular use of that system you dont see the equipment getting higher than 70c... Thats normal and within specs, then thats fine... Even overclocked... Also, you have to take into considerations than equipment this days have also fail safes like throttling for example...
The only way i would get worry, if equipment (A) is overheating equipment (B) so that means there's something wrong there in this case not enough airflow/or dust/ even over voltage... Then i start looking into the situation...
What are the best temps possible you guys ask? Thats subjective into a question to an another person because of personal preferences...
I go with what the manufacturer allows... period... How hot is too hot? Read your manufacturer specs and you find the question right there, or google it is easy... XD If is withing specs then you are fine... Nothing to worry about...
Now my recommendation is:
1: Look the specs of your equipment and what are the manufacturer limits on temperatures...
2: Avoid bombarding your case with useless fans, avoid too many fans.... Less are better in the end...
3: You can always try under volting your equipment, you gain a lot more with this than expending $100 bucks on fans....

This is called overclock.net. When overclocking, most people try to reach the highest frequency they can before x temperature or voltage. If you can get your temps, say, 2-3C lower, that's another 100MHz and maybe you don't care, that's your right, but some people do care. Also, if you already have fans, might as well make the best out of them. Fan placement is all about less sometime being better than more and this thread is all about fan placement.
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post #34 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmen View Post

This is called overclock.net. When overclocking, most people try to reach the highest frequency they can before x temperature or voltage. If you can get your temps, say, 2-3C lower, that's another 100MHz and maybe you don't care, that's your right, but some people do care. Also, if you already have fans, might as well make the best out of them. Fan placement is all about less sometime being better than more and this thread is all about fan placement.
Yep, this is overclock.net where people put their system below 0 to do a 10sec suicidal run XD..

But i guess those are not the ones asking/looking for guidance here... Hence my comment...

Like i said, i only have one fan running in my case other than my gpu fans...

That took away my availability to overclock my equipment? Nope...
Quote:
most people try to reach the highest frequency they can before x temperature or voltage.

That also means if you can run that frequencies @ 90c then be it!!!!
XD
Edited by zGunBLADEz - 6/12/12 at 2:17pm
post #35 of 108
Are you being serious? Yes, good airflow beats tons of fans pointed willy nilly that may even be working AGAINST each other, but that is not the point of this thread.

As for your other comments about hardware:

If you run stuff BELOW the manufacturer's stated tolerance level, that prolongs the life of the equipment in many cases. And yes you can undervolt, but you can also undervolt AND use additional cooling. Prolonging life of components is generally a good thing. http://www.anandtech.com/show/2468/6 It is generally a good idea to have a decent buffer, too, in case of heat spikes for whatever reason. E.g., what happens if your solo fan burns out or seizes up? Fans lose efficiency over time as they accumulate dust, too. It's good to have backups.

That's not even accounting for people who like experimenting as a hobby (I think ehume has inspired me to do this...), or people who care about silence (maybe spreading the load beyond 1 fan would help?), or people who want to have greater positive pressure to keep out dust, or, of course, overclockers as snowmen said.

If you don't care about your components and run them to the manufacturer's stated tolerance level (which might not even be accurate sometimes), feel free, but there's no need to knock others who want to use more, or quieter, or more efficient or less dusty cooling than that.
Edited by unifiedshader - 6/13/12 at 2:28am
post #36 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMD4ME View Post

The only accurate way to tell what airflow pattern, fan locations and fan direction works best in YOUR PC case with YOUR PC hardware, is to accurately test. There are so many variables that it's impossible to know the actual cooling performance without proper testing. In most cases the difference between optimal and poor is a few degrees C, not 10-15C unless you've created a perpetual heat cycle.
FYI- Hot air rises no matter how you try to push it down with fans. It mixes with the surrounding air but the hot air always rises, regardless. The laws of physics have not changed... wink.gif
The bottom line is test if you want to know what really works best for YOUR application.

I have to point out that the tendency of "hot air to rise" (more precisely the pressure/density difference causing it) is several magnitudes smaller than the effect (pressure, if we talk in the same units) of one very low rpm 120mm fan.

However, there is more variables, as pointed out, so suggestion to test with your particular case and component placement in it is the best one. In general, having an fan putting "cold air" directly to the component being cooled is the best strategy (as has been demonstrated by several articles about tests in this regard in various bench-marking sites) unless in your particular situation its not the best idea. Test and find out.
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post #37 of 108
Wow.....loving this thread so far. So quick question: I have an Antec 902 case sitting about 3 feet up on a table, would switching the top fan from exhaust make any real diff? Is it really even conceivable to do so (I was toying with it once and it seemed like it wouldn't be so). And if it's any help, the place where I'm at has crap central AC, the bedrooms all have personal stand up units, but no AC for the room my PC is in unfortunately. mad.gif
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post #38 of 108
i find a cheap indoor/outdoor thermometer is a big help monitoring case temperature rise.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Indoor-Outdoor-Digital-Thermometer-Sensors-temperature-temp-display-White-New-/310395225441?pt=US_Weather_Meters&hash=item4844ff4561
Most automotive supply stores have them.
post #39 of 108
@unifiedshader

Yeah it "prolongs" the life of the equipment, unless you are extreme overvolting you dont have to worry about temps if you are below the recommended specs...

But, theres an issue..... I dont think im going to be with the same pc for 100 years tho.... XD
So i dont see no benefit on running my hardware with lower temps than manufacturer recommended ones......

You guys have to see the whole picture....
post #40 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by zGunBLADEz View Post

dont think im going to be with the same pc for 100 years tho
Exaggerations again.rolleyes.gif

Manufactures tend not to give optimum operating temperature spec. I found this when trying to find safe limit on i7 920
Quote:
There has been quite a bit of talk recently about Intel Core i7 CPUs and what temperature they should be running.......When I talked to an engineer at Intel, I asked him for information on what temperatures the Core i7 CPUs will throttle at, and what temperatures are considered normal. I was surprised to hear him say that he didn’t know the answer. He said he’d find out. A few days later, I got a call back, and I was even more surprised. He says that information is a trade secret, and Intel is not making it public.......Our recommendation is to keep Intel Core i7 CPUs under 80C. That gives you a healthy margin in case you’re running a heavy load on your CPU on a particularly hot summer day. Due to the manufacturing process of Intel Core i7, and the improved power management features, we’re comfortable at up to 80C.
http://www.pugetsystems.com/blog/2009/02/26/intel-core-i7-temperatures/

My setup @3.5GHz idles at 38-40c and is 58-60 on prime.
Before Phanteks with Noctua UH-U12P @ 3.5GHz idle was 40-42c and 67-70c prime.
I plan to OC a little more in near future. wink.gif
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