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A small correction regarding the laws of thermodynamics and convection. - Page 7

post #61 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

I was under the impression Tj max is the maximum allowable temp, the maximum temp before damage occurs.

Tjmax is the max temps allowed for the cores. If you reach it, there shouldn't be any damages because throttling will occur or the CPU will be shut down if throttling is not sufficient.

Here's a great, clear summary from our very own Duckie that I found on google.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Junction Temperature Max.


It is a sensor on your CPU. When the maximum temperature is reached, this will throttle or shutdown your CPU.
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post #62 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Where do I find this "average not their maximum" core temp on intel site?

There is no average...

If you cpu is below the TCase you are within specs and thats their average and recommended temps..
Intel is telling you to keep your temps below your tcase thats it = period..

Theres no average just recommended max on the spec sheet......
That dont mean your cpu would drop performance on 60c or if you lower it to 30c you regain performance..

There is no performance gain other than keeping it below the recommended temps...

fixed..
Edited by zGunBLADEz - 6/13/12 at 2:45pm
post #63 of 108
I do know my i7 920 is safe to operate at 75c core temp.. probably safe at 80c core temp. I limit it to 70c core temp so have plenty of safe cushion. (Not at moment as just put new cooler on) But what I'm saying is intel does not publish a safe operating core temp.... only a Tcase temp and TJ max temp.
post #64 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

I do know my i7 920 is safe to operate at 75c core temp.. probably safe at 80c core temp. I limit it to 70c core temp so have plenty of safe cushion. (Not at moment as just put new cooler on) But what I'm saying is intel does not publish a safe operating core temp.... only a Tcase temp and TJ max temp.

Because there is no average...
post #65 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

I do know my i7 920 is safe to operate at 75c core temp.. probably safe at 80c core temp. I limit it to 70c core temp so have plenty of safe cushion. (Not at moment as just put new cooler on) But what I'm saying is intel does not publish a safe operating core temp.... only a Tcase temp and TJ max temp.

The TJmax is the maximum core temps that should never be reached. If you want to know what it is, simply use RealTemp which I know lists it. The "average" max temperature is not the max "safe" temperature, that's TJmax. This "average" is only a temperature that you should not go over in order to have some headroom in case of temperature peaks like Linpack or higher ambient temperature. That average also isn't official, it only comes from observations made by other enthusiasts. Usually, people recommend stating around 10-15C under TJmax during Prime95 or Linpack.
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post #66 of 108
I do understand guys. What I keep saying an zGunBLADEz said what is publish is a safe operating temperature that techs and users can read and monitor. As far as I know there is no way I can read the Tcase without physically drilling my heat sink and installing a temperature probe... Then hope I get it installed properly and it reads properly.

All this to read Tcase when intel could have simple published a core temp spec. rolleyes.gif
post #67 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

I do understand guys. What I keep saying an zGunBLADEz said was publish is a safe operating temperature that techs and users can read and monitor. As far as I know there is no way I can read the Tcase without physically drilling my heat sink and installing a temperature probe... Then hope I get it installed properly and it reads properly.
All this to read Tcase when intel could have simple published a core temp spec. rolleyes.gif

You dont have to drill nothing..
Go to your mobo/bios and read the cpu temp.. With a software monitor program it would read as cpu: temp..

Intel already put a diode there for the user...

sigh...
post #68 of 108
I'm not a typical PC user. I build my own systems, know what components do and how system works. I'm not a skilled hardware or software tech. Most PC users have no idea how to monitor cpu, mobo chip or GPU temps.... And average user definitely can't figure out the difference between Tcase, TJ max or know where to fine or how to figure what their core temp
post #69 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by zGunBLADEz View Post

You dont have to drill nothing..
Go to your mobo/bios and read the cpu temp.. With a software monitor program it would read as cpu: temp..
Intel already put a diode there for the user...
sigh...

rolleyes.gif now I've got you sighing. biggrin.gif

like I said, I know were to find core temp.... and know what safe core temp is for my CPU... and how to find and figure out what core temp should be thanks to you.

But why oh why don't intel and AMD just publish a a maximum safe operating core temp?

And I do thank you for all your explanations. I had read the links you gave me before but didn't really understand it very well... and now I do.thumb.gif

I just don't like have to make calculations and assumptions when manufacturer could and should supply the spec.
post #70 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

I'm not a typical PC user. I build my own systems, know what components do and how system works. I'm not a skilled hardware or software tech. Most PC users have no idea how to monitor cpu, mobo chip or GPU temps.... And average user definitely can't figure out the difference between Tcase, TJ max or know where to fine or how to figure what their core temp

Ok, rule of thumb...
Now that we know your TJmax and your TCase will add numbers if you dont know how to read them with software... In any chance there is a bad diode or what not..
I always recommend to use both readings at the beginning on a new build and if your TCase readings are fine stick to it and forget about the core package temps...

So, it would be TCase (cpu temp display it in the bios/software) you add +25c (i will recommend sticking to 20c over tcase, just to be in the safe side) over of what you already see in your regular cpu temp. Thats how you find out how close to tjmax you are..
This is not always true, it also depending on how fast your dissipating that heat, you can be 10-15c on the core away from cpu temp..

My tests show me @ 73 TCase my highest core was at @85c still away from TJmax.
The higher the TCase the higher margin on temps on the core depending on your cooling options...

Theres to many variables which are out of intel hands...
Edited by zGunBLADEz - 6/13/12 at 3:21pm
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