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[TS] AMD Radeon HD 7770 & Radeon HD 7750 Review - Page 4

post #31 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neroh View Post

I don't think its targeted towards gamers per say. Look at the power consumption. The 7700 cards are literally the perfect for OEMs. Reasonable performance, quiet, and they use very little power.
The x700 cards have been mainstream ever since Northern Islands. I think they purposefully reeled in performance to make it more suitable for terrible 0 airflow cases and godawful PSUs that OEMS love to stick in their machines.

I don't agree with you on this one simply because the price is too high. Usually if an OEM is going to stick a discrete card in their systems, they usually pick one that is under $100 to keep costs down. On top of this, with solutions such as Llano on the market, it virtually makes a cheap discrete card a moot point under the $100 mark. Above that point, costs of separate CPU and GPU are simply too high for most consumers.

The HD 7770 and 7750 are clearly priced in the discrete add-in market. The HD x700 series cards have always been a low-mid to mid range discrete solution intended for gamers that want something more than an onboard solution but aren't willing to fork over $250+ for a GPU.
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post #32 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

I don't agree with you on this one simply because the price is too high. Usually if an OEM is going to stick a discrete card in their systems, they usually pick one that is under $100 to keep costs down. On top of this, with solutions such as Llano on the market, it virtually makes a cheap discrete card a moot point under the $100 mark. Above that point, costs of separate CPU and GPU are simply too high for most consumers.
The HD 7770 and 7750 are clearly priced in the discrete add-in market. The HD x700 series cards have always been a low-mid to mid range discrete solution intended for gamers that want something more than an onboard solution but aren't willing to fork over $250+ for a GPU.

See edit wink.gif

The pricing is dumb yeah but I dont expect that to last. And I dont think AMD are having to price everything so high, i think its more out of opportunity.
post #33 of 155
way to go AMD... I was so looking forward to buying two of those cards until i saw the benchmarks.
you just Bulldozed away a potential customer.
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post #34 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizonian View Post

I have a feeling their best 'bang for the buck' card will come with the 7850 & 7870's.


Perhaps indeed. Will have to see when they release eventually. Would have preferred the best bang.for-buck in the 100 euro price range tho, as the 6770/5770 were. Based on the stats so far announced/leaked the 7870 should have pretty solid performance, however, the pricing of so far released cards makes me a bit skeptical about the price of these on release. Bang-for-buck needs both performance AND price.

If the 6870/6850 release at similar price point relative to the "current" version as 7770 is when compared to 6770 then I suspect the best bang-for-buck card will not be from the AMD 7xxx series.
Edited by Carniflex - 2/15/12 at 12:27am
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post #35 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbroad77 View Post

You guys are surprised that they're overpriced on a price:performance basis? You must be new here. Admittedly, it's silly that if you base it on a price/die size basis, the 7950 is a better value or at least as good of a value. AMD's target MSRP is probably $95 and $129 for them, after they've been out for a few weeks.
What sort of creatures would "upgrade" from 6800 series to 7700 series? At best they'd tie, anyone could tell you that. (ie would you go from GTX 480 to 570? No.)

Not new here, just using logic. 5870 -> 6970 and GTX 480 -> GTX 580 were on the same process and were a refresh rather than a new architecture/generation.

Also would I go from 9800GTX to a GTX 260, yes I would...
Would I go from an HD 3870 to an HD 4830/HD4770 or even HD 4730, yes I would...
Would I go from a GTX 280 to a GTX 470 or even GTX 460, yes I would...
Would I go from an HD 4870 to an HD 5850 or even HD 5830, yes I would...

Because that is what you'd typically expect from a generation leap for the last 4-5 years or so (if it isn't longer).
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbroad77 View Post

So what you're not happy about is that going from a 6870 to a 7770 isn't a sidegrade, and it's actually a slight downgrade? My guess is that the 7770 has 640 SP's so it can Crossfire with Trinity graphics. Anyways, x800 series is the new midrange (has been since 6800 series), so I'm still confused why everyone is whining so much, as if you'd even consider a 7700 series card, or a Nvidia 650 Ti or whatever.

You should look further than this. Aside from the performance of these cards since most people on here won't buy this kind of performance, midrange was around $149-$199 last gen (HD 6850, GTX 460/560) and this card is placed above this price mark while offering lower performance. The "midrange cards" of this generation will come at an even higher price tag.

This was not that surprising for me since I knew this from the fact that the 7970 launched at $549, but this is seen as a dissapointment by most people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbroad77 View Post

Just for giggles and whatnot, compare the laptop 6990M to the desktop 7770. The 6990M is just a downclocked 6870 (715mhz vs 900mhz). That's about 28% slower, and it has a 100W TDP. The 7770 has an 80W TDP at 1000mhz. They could pretty much drop a 7770 into a 6990M laptop, call it a 7850M, and be done with it... while bringing more performance and 20% lower TDP. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gtx-580m-sli-hd-6990m-crossfire,3022-2.html
Such a terrible product right? rolleyes.gif

I don't see what you're getting at but that's not very impressive for an ASIC that has ~11% less transistors, 50% smaller bus and is based on a 28nm process vs. 40nm (30% channel reduction).
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post #36 of 155
I seriously do not understand all the "clear cut" negativity towards Cape Verde. Do you guys seriously think it's a bad product? Yes, it's priced too high for it to be a good option right now, but I think the same applies to Tahiti. Do the 7950/7970 fare well in performance/price charts? Hell no.

But the hardware is absolutely amazing, just like Cape Verde. The combination of GCN and 28nm is clearly a big step forward for AMD. The simple fact that the 7750 can perform very very close to a 5770 while requiring only 512 shaders in a chip that's barely 1cm on each side and consumes 75W (no external power required) makes it a great product. Nothing else on the market is even close to this level of performance/watt.

The people who claim this is another case of "Bulldozer" are clueless. Bulldozer wasn't only a flop in product positioning in the consumer market, but also a huge flop on a technical level. Worse IPC and higher power consumption. That is NOT the case with Cape Verde.

Of course AMD is going to charge a premium for their latest cards. They're unparalleled right now in that they're state-of-the-art tech. On top of that, margins are already relatively small on GPU's.

Here's a great example a buddy of mine shared with me:
GTX570: 520mm^2 die, $320
i7 3930K: 435mm^2 die, $620

As such, I feel AMD has every right to charge a moderate premium until Nvidia can release a competitor. I can't wait for Kepler's release. AMD will unquestionably drop prices at that time, making the 7750/7770 almost irresistible for SFF/low power gaming rigs. And hopefully Kepler will be just as good, if not better.

Also, someone mentioned the awesome idea of Cape Verde adapted for laptops. This should finally bring mainstream gaming performance to mid-cost laptops with good portability and battery life. Given that the 7750 only uses 75W, AMD could easily shrink that down to a sub-45W part with lower clocks while still maintaining the 512 shaders. That would give desktop 5750-like performance. Combine that with a switchable graphics dual-core Ivy Bridge and stick them in a 14" chassis. What do you get? A sub-$800 thin and light gaming laptop with 6+ hours of battery life.

Conclusion: I think AMD is going for a different approach with these GPU's. They're not aiming for the performance crown, obviously. They've instead designed a card that is incredibly efficient and opens up a new realm of possibilities for mobile computing. The desktop 7770/7750 are not great products at the current prices, nor are they good options if you already have the previous generation's midrange (6770, 6850, 6870). But once the prices inevitably drop, they will be offering near-midrange performance at an entry-level price and power consumption. Nvidia will beat them in performance, but given the purported size of Kepler's die, they likely will lose in performance/watt.
Edited by aznofazns - 2/15/12 at 12:58am
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post #37 of 155
These looks pretty good, a nice 15%~ bump from the cards that they're replacing (HD5750 and HD5770).
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post #38 of 155
I highly doubt that current performance levels are not a final indication as to what these cards can actually do. This is AMDs first brand new GFX arch since... the 2900 series.

Since performance enhancing patch's are released on the eve of competition it'll be interesting to see how these cards get better (not to mention the inevitable price cuts)
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post #39 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenixlight View Post

These looks pretty good, a nice 15%~ bump from the cards that they're replacing (HD5750 and HD5770).

considering those card are about 2 years old, i would've expected more than that
 
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post #40 of 155
So then, just wait until Kepler comes out for price drop and drivers?
    
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