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Loop order really matter?

post #1 of 14
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Res>pump>480>360>cpu>6990x2

or something like

Res>pump>480>6990x2>360> cpu

first one cuts down on tubing, second one i think might get better temps.

i feel like if it went 480 to a 360 the temp of the water wouldn't change much mainly because it'll already be at room temp after 1 rad...

so does loop order really matter?

this is in a TJ-11 case
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post #2 of 14
No, it does not matter. All the liquid inside the loop will go to the same equilibrium temperature, no matter the order.
Edited by icehotshot - 2/14/12 at 10:04pm
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post #3 of 14
It's debatable and it does get debated a lot here, but there seems to be a fair amount of people on this board who tend to think that it does matter for gpu and cpu loops with more than one rad. The ideal would be something along the lines of CPU> rad > GPU> rad> pump res > CPU

IMO I would try to have a radiator after its been heated from a CPU or GPU so you get that little bit extra cooling capability. Although, it would not be the end of the world since there will be an average temp reached for the water after your rig has been running for awhile.

All I can say is that I am in your situation and I will be doing some mods so that there is a radiator after each watercooled component
post #4 of 14
At the of the day loop order doesn't really matter from a performance perspective. The difference in water temp from one block to the next will be about 1-2c realistically. From an aesthetic perspective loop order can matter.
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post #5 of 14
We have had a few member's report different temperatures when changing loop order when changing their multiple GPU's from serial to parallel, but I believe their pump had more pressure in serial and lower flow running parallel thus the difference in temperatures. When running parallel with multiple GPU's your pump needs a higher flow rate v.s pressure!
post #6 of 14
I don't think it matters THAT much, but I'd put rads between hot stuff, so the second of the two options you listed. You could, of course, test it out for yourself smile.gif

I would when I get my graphics cards under water, but given the massive distances involved in an M8, I just don't see it happening.
post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt26LFC View Post

At the of the day loop order doesn't really matter from a performance perspective. The difference in water temp from one block to the next will be about 1-2c realistically. From an aesthetic perspective loop order can matter.

This

I'm BOINCing right now (under full load)
CPU @ 4.8- 51C
GPU1- 32C
GPU2- 34C
GPU3- 38C
res-pump-pump-360-cpu-gpu-gpu-gpu-360-360-

I liked the aesthetics more then worrying about 6C
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post #8 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Systemlord View Post

We have had a few member's report different temperatures when changing loop order when changing their multiple GPU's from serial to parallel, but I believe their pump had more pressure in serial and lower flow running parallel thus the difference in temperatures. When running parallel with multiple GPU's your pump needs a higher flow rate v.s pressure!

Exactly the only thing that matters is flow rate. If the flow rate changes after changing the loop order then it could make a difference, otherwise it will not. Though as long as the flow rate isn't really low, there probably won't be much difference between a higher and a lower flow rate.

If you take a thermodynamics class you will realize that the order does not matter.
Edited by icehotshot - 2/15/12 at 8:57am
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post #9 of 14
Loop order does make a difference depending on how much heat you'll have in the loop, but it's such a small difference that for the vast majority of people, it's better to just route the tubing however it's easiest to work with or however looks the best. At 1 gpm, it takes ~250-260w of heat to raise water by 1C, so even in a worst-case scenario of your 2x 6990's running into the CPU, the CPU is going to see at worst 4C higher temps. Running Pump>Rad>Rad>CPU>GPU>GPU means that your first GPU will see less than 1C higher temps, and the second GPU will see (at worst) 2C higher temps than the first GPU.

For most people, those temps aren't high enough to worry about it, and 2x6990's are one of the highest heat loads you'll see in a loop.

(edit)
Obviously, at higher flow rates, it takes even more heat to raise the water by 1C, so the more pump power you have, the less it matters. Since 1 gpm is pretty easy to achieve and it already makes virtually no difference, you can see why loop order isn't important.
Edited by bakageta - 2/15/12 at 9:19am
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post #10 of 14
Oh look, this thread again!

No, loop order does not make much difference to temperatures as the temperature rise of the water as it goes through a block is fairly minimal. That said if you have 3-4 power hungry (nVidia wink.gif) GPUs is series and you are chasing every last degree, don't put them before your CPU. My GPU raises the water temperature by <0.75°C, I am really not bothered about putting it before my CPU. If you do go block>rad>block then you will see slightly lower temperatures (all other things being equal), but the difference will be pretty small.

You can work out the difference yourself; it takes 264W to raise water at 1GPM by 1°C. It is a linear relationship so, for example, 132W at 1GPM will give a 0.5°C rise, as will 264W at 2GPM.

As for the effect of dispersing radiators on average water temperatures, in theory going block>rad>block>rad is more efficient as it maintains a higher average water - air delta going into the rads. In practice it makes almost no discernable difference to the average water temperature in our loops as we are dealing with such small temperature differences.

Oh, and unless you have a huge rad or a tiny heat load (idle) the water coming out of the rad will never be at ambient temperature during stead state conditions. The closest you can realistically hope for is 2-3°C water - air on load.
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehotshot View Post

No, it does not matter. All the liquid inside the loop will go to the same equilibrium temperature, no matter the order.

Close but no cigar.

Whilst the loop will reach equilibrium after a short while of constant load this does not mean that the temperature at every part of the loop is the same, only that the temperature at each part of the loop is stable. The water will always come out of a block warmer than it went in, and come out of a rad cooler, otherwise you are not moving heat.


Edit: Mostly Ninja'd by bakageta ninja.gif
Edited by GingerJohn - 2/15/12 at 9:17am
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