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[ZDNet] The long kiss goodbye for x86 desktop Windows - Page 2

post #11 of 71
"but my brand new win8 alienware PC won't run any games!"

lol can't wait for those posts to start.
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post #12 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by b3machi7ke View Post

No, you can still use those x86/64 applications but not natively. The answer is in there somewhere, I'll go look in there again, I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure you can run them through a VDI...

Maybe for business use since they can run virtualization.

This transition to WinRT is for the Microsoft App Store. Microsoft wants to turn Windows into the the Apple Store/Xbox Live so they can create a walled garden to get money from software developers. Apple takes a huge cut from app sales. Microsoft knows this from Xbox Live.

New business model to control end users.
post #13 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post

Maybe for business use since they can run virtualization.
This transition to WinRT is for the Microsoft App Store. Microsoft wants to turn Windows into the the Apple Store/Xbox Live so they can create a walled garden to get money from software developers. Apple takes a huge cut from app sales from developers. Microsoft knows this from Xbox Live.
New business model to control end users.

That's exactly the gist of it all, good job at finding the bottom line there.. biggrin.gif

Windows 8 will be a big store, ONLINE, of course...
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post #14 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by b3machi7ke View Post

I agree there's not a major need to move from 7 to 8 as your average consumer for a desktop OS, especially as the initial market will not have a whole lot of apps coded for this. But this is a complete different direction Microsoft is headed, I think to say 8 doesn't have much innovation would be incorrect. We're talking about a complete overhaul of their OS, something that I would consider to be very bold and outside the box for them...

What i said was in terms of desktop no theres not much innovation, the big overhaul they did on W8 was so they could compete in the mobile market.
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post #15 of 71
Guys... Windows 8 and Windows On ARM aren't the same OS.

Windows 8 still supports Win32 and will run all of your apps and games. Microsoft is making the transition very slowly. It took them 7 years to remove the last traces of DOS from Windows and it will take a similar amount of time for Win32. 10 years from now we'll look back on Windows 7 and its crummy Win32 apps and laugh.


This is a good thing. The WinAPI is horrible. Its 26 years of tacked on features with very little in the way of cleanup. Windows applications are still executed as if launched by a DOS prompt that hasn't existed in the OS since XP.

WinRT is new, its fresh, and its infinitely superior to the WinAPI. The only people that are going to resist this change are guys like the author of this article that have been writing Windows applications so long they are unwilling to change. But they are in the minority. There are hundreds of thousands of developers out there writing apps for Android/iOS/WP7. How many of them will jump at the chance to port their apps to Windows 8/WOA? If you said "all of them" you wouldn't be that far off.


I'd say Windows 7 will hold out for maybe 3-4 months while developers learn the new APIs and companies fix compatibility issues with their current apps before the flood gates open and Windows 8 bursts out with better applications, better performance, and more improvements than you can count.

I mean, THEY'RE PUTTING THE UP ARROW BACK IN EXPLORER! THAT ALONE JUSTIFIES THE COST OF SWITCHING
    
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post #16 of 71
I find this use comment to be very interesting to the whole article:
Quote:
Perlow seems to assume that Intel will just roll over and die. It's an extremely strong assumption, but essentially a requirement for his argument to work. In fact, however, the power characteristics of Intel CPUs are steadily improving. We've already seen commitments to use Intel's Medfield architecture in Android-based mobile phones. If anything, Arm could be another flash in the pan, like the 68k and Mips were in the 80s and early 90s, before Intel caught up and buried them.

If Intel lives, then the restrictions Microsoft is imposing on WOA don't amount to anything. Windows 8 on Intel still supports everything that Windows 7 supports, plus Metro-style apps targeted at WOA. Judging by the developer preview, Windows 8 on Intel will also offer even better performance than Windows 7.

Win32 will almost certainly go into maintenance mode, and will be phased out at some point, but probably not until Windows 9 at the earliest. To replace Win32, Microsoft needs a keyboard/mouse-centric replacement based on WinRT. That won't be in Windows 8, but I'd bet a decent sum of money that it's what Microsoft has in mind for Windows 9. That will also be around the time businesses will start upgrading from Windows 7.

Perlow's logic on why Microsoft is restricting WOA is faulty too. The difficulty isn't moving apps from x86 to Arm. Any competent developer would realise that most apps don't use assembly code, and can easily be ported to Arm. The reason Microsoft chose to exclude legacy code was to retain control of the power characteristics and user experience -- especially UI responsiveness -- on Arm tablets.

Microsoft's reasons for restricting WOA don't apply to Intel PCs, which will still constitute the vast majority of Windows sales. Moreover, Microsoft even seems to be willing to allow legacy code on Intel tablets. This suggests that Intel tablets will be targeted, at least initially, at power users and businesses, whilst Arm tablets will provide a more restricted, but more consistent, user experience to consumers. In the Windows 9 time frame, Intel tablets without Win32 support could be on the cards too, but non-tablets will almost certainly continue to support it even in Windows 9 and beyond.
    
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post #17 of 71
I cannot explain how wrong this is.

The WinRT API surface is much better documented, more coherent and far better supported than the older win32 APIs. You can do ALL of the same things with the API, it is no more 'locked down', it does provide new security measures to ensure that users know what developers are doing, and it does provide better security mechanisms (I can't really say anything more about that subject, sadly)

As Steve said: Native code targeting WinRT is also supported using C and C++, which can be targeted across architectures and distributed through the Windows Store.

Yes, you will need to refactor old applications for them to run on WOA, but that is only natural, anyone with any knowledge of the difference in architectures knows this is the case.

Win32 needs to die, win32 has needed to die for a long time, almost anyone writing in win32 wishes it would go and die!


This is more poorly informed, inflamatory journalism.
Edited by wcdolphin - 2/15/12 at 11:20am
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post #18 of 71
Everyone knows that Windows 8 is going to be terrible because Windows 7 is good and Vista was terrible. And just like XP, they will support 7 for years.
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post #19 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcdolphin View Post

I cannot explain how wrong this is.
The WinRT API surface is much better documented, more coherent and far better supported than the older win32 APIs. You can do ALL of the same things with the API, it is no more 'locked down', it does provide new security measures to ensure that users know what developers are doing, and it does provide better security mechanisms (I can't really say anything more about that subject, sadly)
As Steve said: Native code targeting WinRT is also supported using C and C++, which can be targeted across architectures and distributed through the Windows Store.
Yes, you will need to refactor old applications for them to run on WOA, but that is only natural, anyone with any knowledge of the difference in architectures knows this is the case.
Win32 needs to die, win32 has needed to die for a long time, almost anyone writing in win32 wishes it would go and die!
This is more poorly informed, inflamatory journalism.

I couldn't have said it better myself. +REP.
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post #20 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcdolphin View Post

I cannot explain how wrong this is.
The WinRT API surface is much better documented, more coherent and far better supported than the older win32 APIs. You can do ALL of the same things with the API, it is no more 'locked down', it does provide new security measures to ensure that users know what developers are doing, and it does provide better security mechanisms (I can't really say anything more about that subject, sadly)
As Steve said: Native code targeting WinRT is also supported using C and C++, which can be targeted across architectures and distributed through the Windows Store.
Yes, you will need to refactor old applications for them to run on WOA, but that is only natural, anyone with any knowledge of the difference in architectures knows this is the case.
Win32 needs to die, win32 has needed to die for a long time, almost anyone writing in win32 wishes it would go and die!
This is more poorly informed, inflamatory journalism.

I guess I missed it, after reading this article and the one he wrote on windows server 8, my takeaway was that this guy was excited about everything microsoft was doing and that they had a great approach to it. I didn't see any uninformed or inflammatory journalism going on in these articles. Admittedly, I've got very limited (introductory programming courses) coding experience so I don't know all the nuances and details about how all these architectures work, and I don't work intimately with Windows environments though, so I could be missing some blatant errors he's making from ignorance myself...
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