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[ZDNet] The long kiss goodbye for x86 desktop Windows - Page 7

post #61 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Windows 3.1 = Good
Windows 95 = Bad, Good after SR2
Windows 98 = Bad, Good after SE
Windows ME = Bad
Windows 2000 = Bad, good after SP2
Windows XP = Bad, good after SP1
Windows Vitsa = Bad, good after SP1
Windows 7 = Vista SP2, so just good.
I wish people would stop spreading the good-bad cycle crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

This, x10000000000000
The whole good/bad cycle is complete crap.

You can't really say it's crap. If the people who use it everyday are disappointed then it's a failure. That's how business works: The consumer decides whether or not it was a worthy upgrade, and it's the consumers who are declaring Vista junk.

You can't tell people what to like - regardless of whether or not you agree with them. Just like you're entitled to make excuses for Microsoft's crappy launches, they have every right to trash Microsoft based on their bad experiences. Everyone has a right to feel how they feel.
    
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post #62 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotUrAverageJoe View Post

You can't really say it's crap. If the people who use it everyday are disappointed then it's a failure. That's how business works: The consumer decides whether or not it was a worthy upgrade, and it's the consumers who are declaring Vista junk.
You can't tell people what to like - regardless of whether or not you agree with them. Just like you're entitled to make excuses for Microsoft's crappy launches, they have every right to trash Microsoft based on their bad experiences. Everyone has a right to feel how they feel.

The good / bad cycle is crap and has little to do with opinions.

For those that were around and can actually remember their first install. XP was just as bad as Vista was on launch day. And just like Vista, XP didn't really get better till they started updating it. The problem is, we've used XP so long most people forget that. After SP1 both XP and Vista both got better. And Vista fully updated isn't bad at all, as it's essentially 7 without some features, and vice versa.

The same can be said for every one of the Windows versions 3.1/95/98/2k/me. Each started out, just like Vista with the same hate it got. Then gradually got better. The good->bad->good->bad cycle IS crap.

The main problem is Vista's hate never got let down. And it's life was short lived before we got 7, so people only really remember the bad. And personally 7 is just an updated Vista, it's version scheme along with the server side version scheme all match up with being updates rather than a main OS upgrade.
post #63 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

The good / bad cycle is crap and has little to do with opinions.
For those that were around and can actually remember their first install. XP was just as bad as Vista was on launch day. And just like Vista, XP didn't really get better till they started updating it. The problem is, we've used XP so long most people forget that. After SP1 both XP and Vista both got better. And Vista fully updated isn't bad at all, as it's essentially 7 without some features, and vice versa.
The same can be said for every one of the Windows versions 3.1/95/98/2k/me. Each started out, just like Vista with the same hate it got. Then gradually got better. The good->bad->good->bad cycle IS crap.
The main problem is Vista's hate never got let down. And it's life was short lived before we got 7, so people only really remember the bad. And personally 7 is just an updated Vista, it's version scheme along with the server side version scheme all match up with being updates rather than a main OS upgrade.

Microsoft flat out lied about the system requirements for Vista. For XP, it was painful for older systems to upgrade. For Vista, you had brand new PC's sold off the shelf with an OS they couldn't even run. MAJOR difference there. I vividly remember XP at launch but I also remember what XP was - the beginning of a new UI and new features, and the first time they brought NT to home users. What you omit from your argument is the availability of Windows 2000 if you didn't like XP. Vista, on the other had, didn't change half of what they promised. They abandoned WinFS and several promised features weren't included. So for you to compare the major overhaul that was XP to the new GUI that was Vista is a bit of a stretch.

You keep stating Vista was fine at SP1 and that's nothing short of a lie. The performance boost was greatly exaggerated, and it still had lingering bugs. Remember the disk cache bug (I think that's what it was called)? Powering down or unplugging your PC would completely corrupt your registry and screw your Vista installation. Did this happen in previous versions? Yes. Was it common? Not nearly as much as Vista. There were more ways to crash Vista than any other version of Windows, and people are entitled to remember that - just like they remember Windows ME. Again, you can't force your opinion onto other people. They are entitled to speak based on their own experiences, and so are you.
    
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post #64 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post

You are correct when you say that the 68000 was faster (I wrote too late at night. Thanks for the correction).
Medfield's idle consumption is (according to anandtech) :
Code:
                                   Standby (3G)      Talk (3G)       Browsing (3G)   Video Playback 720p
Apple iPhone 4S                         ~38mW   ~800mW          ~1.3W                   ~500mW
Intel Medfield Reference        ~18mW   ~700mW          ~1.0]W                  ~850mW
Samsung Galaxy S II             ~19mW   ~675mW          ~1.2W                   ~650mW
Notice that even when web browsing, Medfield has MUCH lower power consumption when browsing (and has much better performance)
All of these are far less than the 2.6w FUD spread shortly before CES.

Hmm, I thought the 2.6w was from Intel themselves? Thanks for the information. Mind you, I want to see performance when they have to do binary translation...and I want to see Medfield in person, it's all good and well it wins in benchmarks but I want to see if it can match the smoothness of a dual core.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

asm is rather a moot point with C/C++ etc languages.
and the truth is, and arm and other uarch ballwashers love to carry this water about ibm, pricing etc, X86 had higher performance per $$$$ end of story.

asm was definitely not a moot point then, a few people coded in C but a lot of it was asm due to machines not having so much speed to deal with too much overhead. IBM only had one 16bit chip that fit in their budget restrictions (The 8088), otherwise we'd all have Motorola 68000s and not Intel x86 based CPUs. That was literally their first choice. Proof
    
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post #65 of 71
I'd fully accept moving to ARM, as long as everything I use now is ported over eventually.
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post #66 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post


I can't find it anywhere, but is it even a dual core? If not, then (Even considering hard to make MP code) Tegra3 could double its score, at least...

Medfield is a solo-core, I'm not sure what you're debating here. I said Medfield is twice as fast as an ARM core, not that it was twice as fast as an ARM SoC. At 1.3Ghz, Tegra 3 scores 10400, what math are you using that pits a 1.6Ghz Tegra 3 at 20400 points?
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post #67 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Hmm, I thought the 2.6w was from Intel themselves? Thanks for the information. Mind you, I want to see performance when they have to do binary translation...and I want to see Medfield in person, it's all good and well it wins in benchmarks but I want to see if it can match the smoothness of a dual core.
asm was definitely not a moot point then, a few people coded in C but a lot of it was asm due to machines not having so much speed to deal with too much overhead. IBM only had one 16bit chip that fit in their budget restrictions (The 8088), otherwise we'd all have Motorola 68000s and not Intel x86 based CPUs. That was literally their first choice. Proof

thank you for re-enforcing what I siad, it had more performance per $. LOL
post #68 of 71
If the idea is to use a new operating specific, architecture independent API based programming language, I hate to be the guy who stands up and declares war, but.... This seems like a direct tactic to eliminate Linux from the desktop computing industry entirely. It will be like writing apps for an Android cellphone, sure they all work on 'any' Android device, but they are all very limited in functionality, and they don't run on anything else. I know, the same could be said for most OSX applications, and things that are written for specific operating systems, however MOST applications today, regardless of the operating system they are originally intended for can be relatively easily ported or run on another operating system. If you make the entire application in a language that only one operating systems Virtual Machine (wasted clock cycles) can execute, then its no longer viable to attempt running said application on another platform.

This seems like a GIGANTIC step backwards in my opinion. Part of the reason we went with C/C++ was to move forward, it made it so just about anybody could write an application or operating system, and it would work on the target platform, and could - with the correct compiler profiles, be cross-compiled to any other platform, without having to know each individual platform's assembly language. Now, we are going backwards and making it so that if you want to run your app on all three target operating systems, you are going to have to know, and code for all three target operating systems, bringing us to the point we were prior to GTK+ and all of the other cross-platform libraries, where developers will become lazy and just develop for the operating system they use themselves.

Horrible move is horrible Microsoft, but I guess you'll do anything to pad your wallet.
    
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post #69 of 71
mad.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

Medfield is a solo-core, I'm not sure what you're debating here. I said Medfield is twice as fast as an ARM core, not that it was twice as fast as an ARM SoC. At 1.3Ghz, Tegra 3 scores 10400, what math are you using that pits a 1.6Ghz Tegra 3 at 20400 points?

You said chip, which would count as a SoC unless you can get a Tegra3/Exynos without the extra cores. And why make such a distinction? There's no reason to make such a distinction either, you can't buy a single core Tegra 3. Not to mention Caffienemark is single threaded iirc, so Tegra3s single core performance would be as fast, or nearly as fast as Medfield. An Cortex-A9 beats Medfield at the same clock speed, it doesn't have an IPC advantage, nor does it have a power consumption advantage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

thank you for re-enforcing what I siad, it had more performance per $. LOL

No, I didn't. It wasn't price/performance, it was the weakest chip by far and overpriced for what performance it had (Case in point, the 68040 which was meant ti compete with the 486 was able to match a Pentium, which was a significant performer over the 486..) but it was the only chip IBM could fit into the budget.

Just because all you can afford is that 620w Shaw PSU (In reality, at 150w Corsair level) that doesn't mean it has good price/performance.
    
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post #70 of 71
Yes, we're all just going to wake up on Monday morning and start porting our applications to WinRT, because it would be such a shame if only x86 users could use our x86 applications.
    
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