Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [MacRumors] Fair Labor Association Offers Initial Impressions on Foxconn Audit as iPads Used to Collect Survey Data
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[MacRumors] Fair Labor Association Offers Initial Impressions on Foxconn Audit as iPads Used to Collect Survey Data

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
According to Fair Labor Association president Auret van Heerden, Foxconn's facilities appear to be "first-class" in comparison to the garment factories the association has typically monitored, with van Heerden suggesting that monotony and boredom associated with repetitive assembly tasks may be among the most significant threats to workers' all-around health at the facilities.

The report notes that the Fair Labor Association has 30 employees on hand to conduct the audit, with Foxconn employees being surveyed for the audit using iPads to record their responses. Three separate Foxconn factories representing 300,000 workers are being audited over the course of three weeks, with 35,000 employees participating in the group's anonymous assessment surveys.
Source

Hopefully others will follow after Apple, and increase their inspections of the facilities they use, and also to join the FLA as well.
Kasuf
(9 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 6600K ASRock Z170 Pro4 ASUS Radeon RX 480 ROG Strix Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB 3000MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
Samsung 850 EVO Noctua NH-D15 LG 34" Ultrawide (LG34UC98) Corsair HX750i 
Case
Silverstone FT05B-W 
  hide details  
Reply
Kasuf
(9 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 6600K ASRock Z170 Pro4 ASUS Radeon RX 480 ROG Strix Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB 3000MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
Samsung 850 EVO Noctua NH-D15 LG 34" Ultrawide (LG34UC98) Corsair HX750i 
Case
Silverstone FT05B-W 
  hide details  
Reply
post #2 of 21
I would love to believe this article but:

1. No pictures at all of said "first-class facilities". I understand the need to protect their methods and practices, but a couple pictures of unimportant areas would have made this much more believeable.

2. It's not terribly difficult to put on a good face for an audit. It is done all the time.
Whitey
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-4670k Gigabyte Z87X-UD4H Geforce GTX 660 Corsair Vengence 2x4GB 
Hard DriveMonitorKeyboardPower
1TB WD Caviar Dell S2340M Logitech G710+ EVGA 650W 
CaseMouse
Corsaid 600T White  Mionix Avior7000 
  hide details  
Reply
Whitey
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-4670k Gigabyte Z87X-UD4H Geforce GTX 660 Corsair Vengence 2x4GB 
Hard DriveMonitorKeyboardPower
1TB WD Caviar Dell S2340M Logitech G710+ EVGA 650W 
CaseMouse
Corsaid 600T White  Mionix Avior7000 
  hide details  
Reply
post #3 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

Hopefully others will follow after Apple, and increase their inspections of the facilities they use, and also to join the FLA as well.

Do you mean you hope companies continue with business as usual, fully aware of the terrible working conditions in the factories they employ for fab, and only react when there's a public outcry against them, threatening bans?

Besides, the report came back saying the company is fine and dandy--I would ask, what sort of company that is fine and dandy would be experiencing numerous accidents where people die or are seriously hurt? If that's the case, then there's a problem with the auditing process.

edit--Regardless, this is a reporting flaw--it's discussing the auditor's comparison to the garment industry? Is the garment industry a standard for fair and safe working? I would equate it to saying, "this company is fine because it's better than the worst working environment I've seen." Right...

Besides, the least-representative time to conduct an audit of a company is right after an accident happened. Of course things would have been cleaned up for an announced audit.
Edited by guyladouche - 2/15/12 at 3:48pm
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K Biostar TP67B+ XFX HD5750 1GB 2x4GB DDR3 Corsair 1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
60GB OCZ SSD, 2x160GB HDD RAID0, 500GB+500GB+1.5TB Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Samsung SyncMaster 930B Antec SmartPower 450w 
Case
Antec 900 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K Biostar TP67B+ XFX HD5750 1GB 2x4GB DDR3 Corsair 1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
60GB OCZ SSD, 2x160GB HDD RAID0, 500GB+500GB+1.5TB Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Samsung SyncMaster 930B Antec SmartPower 450w 
Case
Antec 900 
  hide details  
Reply
post #4 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

Do you mean you hope companies continue with business as usual, fully aware of the terrible working conditions in the factories they employ for fab, and only react when there's a public outcry against them, threatening bans?
Besides, the report came back saying the company is fine and dandy--I would ask, what sort of company that is fine and dandy would be experiencing numerous accidents where people die or are seriously hurt? If that's the case, then there's a problem with the auditing process.
That's the opposite of what I said. I said, I hope they follow after Apple, and inspect their facilities more often -- and, join the FLA, so there can be even more inspections.

There's nothing Apple, or any other company, can do to improve the situation in China. It's the responsibility of the Chinese Government, and they're the only ones who can actually improve the lives of the workers, by passing laws for increased pay and so on.

You do need to understand that there's up to half a million workers in some factories, and that there are bound to be accidents at some point because someone didn't do their job properly.
Quote:
edit--Regardless, this is a reporting flaw--it's discussing the auditor's comparison to the garment industry? Is the garment industry a standard for fair and safe working? I would equate it to saying, "this company is fine because it's better than the worst working environment I've seen." Right...
Besides, the least-representative time to conduct an audit of a company is right after an accident happened. Of course things would have been cleaned up for an announced audit.
Apple's the first technology company to ever join the FLA, the auditor is simply noting the differences between the two industries and what they are accustom to addressing. He at no point ever said it's fine, and the actual audit hasn't even finished yet -- it's going to take three weeks to audit three separate Foxconn facilities representing 350,000 workers, and 35,000 of which will be participating in the anonymous group assessment surveys.
Kasuf
(9 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 6600K ASRock Z170 Pro4 ASUS Radeon RX 480 ROG Strix Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB 3000MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
Samsung 850 EVO Noctua NH-D15 LG 34" Ultrawide (LG34UC98) Corsair HX750i 
Case
Silverstone FT05B-W 
  hide details  
Reply
Kasuf
(9 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 6600K ASRock Z170 Pro4 ASUS Radeon RX 480 ROG Strix Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB 3000MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
Samsung 850 EVO Noctua NH-D15 LG 34" Ultrawide (LG34UC98) Corsair HX750i 
Case
Silverstone FT05B-W 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

Apple's the first technology company to ever join the FLA, the auditor is simply noting the differences between the two industries and what they are accustom to addressing. He at no point ever said it's fine, and the actual audit hasn't even finished yet -- it's going to take three weeks to audit three separate Foxconn facilities representing 350,000 workers, and 35,000 of which will be participating in the anonymous group assessment surveys.

Don't get me wrong--I agree, nothing Apple can (or even should) do will change the working situation in China--it's a product of the socioeconomic status and cultural differences in the country, and it's a sad fact of the matter for the times.

But having been both audited and performing audits, announced audits--especially ones after a major incident, only show you how well a company can clean things up--not how it actually functions.

Regarding saying things are just fine--true, I used that phrase. The wording was:
Quote:
van Heerden said, "The facilities are first-class; the physical conditions are way, way above average of the norm."

Sounds better than "just fine" to me--which is why the reports are so troubling. "First-class" facilities generally shouldn't have reports of worker deaths, accidents, and suicides--even in a country that has the working history of China.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K Biostar TP67B+ XFX HD5750 1GB 2x4GB DDR3 Corsair 1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
60GB OCZ SSD, 2x160GB HDD RAID0, 500GB+500GB+1.5TB Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Samsung SyncMaster 930B Antec SmartPower 450w 
Case
Antec 900 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K Biostar TP67B+ XFX HD5750 1GB 2x4GB DDR3 Corsair 1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
60GB OCZ SSD, 2x160GB HDD RAID0, 500GB+500GB+1.5TB Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Samsung SyncMaster 930B Antec SmartPower 450w 
Case
Antec 900 
  hide details  
Reply
post #6 of 21
The advance notice may have helped. I would also imagine the fear of reprisal would keep any unhappy employee quiet.
My First Build
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I7-860 2.8/OC'ed 3.60 FPO/batch # L935B730 Asus P7P55d Evo MSI 580 TF II OC 8 Gig Corsiar DDR3 1600 XMP 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
WD Black 750 Samsung H50, pull/push Win7 Pro 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
HP 2509B 25" 1920x1080 Steelseries backlit Merc Corsiar TX650 Thermatake V9 Black 
MouseAudio
Rat 7 Asus Xonar DG 
  hide details  
Reply
My First Build
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I7-860 2.8/OC'ed 3.60 FPO/batch # L935B730 Asus P7P55d Evo MSI 580 TF II OC 8 Gig Corsiar DDR3 1600 XMP 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
WD Black 750 Samsung H50, pull/push Win7 Pro 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
HP 2509B 25" 1920x1080 Steelseries backlit Merc Corsiar TX650 Thermatake V9 Black 
MouseAudio
Rat 7 Asus Xonar DG 
  hide details  
Reply
post #7 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

Don't get me wrong--I agree, nothing Apple can (or even should) do will change the working situation in China--it's a product of the socioeconomic status and cultural differences in the country, and it's a sad fact of the matter for the times.
But having been both audited and performing audits, announced audits--especially ones after a major incident, only show you how well a company can clean things up--not how it actually functions.
Regarding saying things are just fine--true, I used that phrase. The wording was:
Quote:
van Heerden said, "The facilities are first-class; the physical conditions are way, way above average of the norm."
Sounds better than "just fine" to me--which is why the reports are so troubling. "First-class" facilities generally shouldn't have reports of worker deaths, accidents, and suicides--even in a country that has the working history of China.

I disagree with your conclusion that " nothing Apple can (or even should) do will change the working situation in China", because manufacturers can build their own facilities and hire who the want and run them as they see fit in quasi-free market China these days. The thing is, how many companies are going to spend more by paying better wages, working employees shorter hours, safer working conditions- etc etc. and therefore hurt their bottom line when they can spend less? The answer is clear- NONE. At least none that I am aware of. All of the companies doing business in China seem to be taking advantage of the situation without regards to what that means to Chinese workeres- and also what that means to the workers in the rest of the world who are out of work because things can be done in China for so much less money. I guarantee you that if Apple or any other megacorp wanted to build their own plants and pay workers decent wages and have better working conditions in China they could, they simply choose not to. There is a big difference between can't and won't.

I definitley agree that this report is "troubling". Apple is under scrutiny for having neo-slave laborers in China, and then suddenly an "independant" study finds that things are actually "First -Class"? Ya right, and in other news, the "fair labor association " has also discovered that the moon is made out of cheese. rolleyes.gif
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-4170 @ 4.86 Ghz ASUS M5A97 EVO 2 x PowerColor AX6790 Crossfire 16GB (4 x 4GB) SAMSUNG MV-3V4G3D @1890 Mhz 8-9-9 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
2x Corsair Force 3 120 GB SSD External USB AMD stock cooler Win7 Ultimate 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS 23" DVI Fullsize, solid. OCZ ModXStream Pro 500W CM Praetorian 730 Black 
Mouse
Has red light on bottom 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-4170 @ 4.86 Ghz ASUS M5A97 EVO 2 x PowerColor AX6790 Crossfire 16GB (4 x 4GB) SAMSUNG MV-3V4G3D @1890 Mhz 8-9-9 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
2x Corsair Force 3 120 GB SSD External USB AMD stock cooler Win7 Ultimate 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS 23" DVI Fullsize, solid. OCZ ModXStream Pro 500W CM Praetorian 730 Black 
Mouse
Has red light on bottom 
  hide details  
Reply
post #8 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

Don't get me wrong--I agree, nothing Apple can (or even should) do will change the working situation in China--it's a product of the socioeconomic status and cultural differences in the country, and it's a sad fact of the matter for the times.
But having been both audited and performing audits, announced audits--especially ones after a major incident, only show you how well a company can clean things up--not how it actually functions.
Oh I know, however there will be more audits. Apple inspected their facilities around 250 times in 2011, a more than double increase from 2010, and they do it randomly I believe. This is the first audit by the FLA, and there should be many more, and likely unannounced audits.
Quote:
Regarding saying things are just fine--true, I used that phrase. The wording was:
Quote:
van Heerden said, "The facilities are first-class; the physical conditions are way, way above average of the norm."
Sounds better than "just fine" to me--which is why the reports are so troubling. "First-class" facilities generally shouldn't have reports of worker deaths, accidents, and suicides--even in a country that has the working history of China.
He's saying it's first-class for a sweatshop, ultimately as I said, they house up to half a million people in a single factory. It'd be really difficult to manage all those people and not have any accidents, or any suicides. I've read although I've not verified this, that they suicide because the financial benefits to their family is greater than their pay, it's sad.

That aside, it doesn't sound to me as if he's saying the facility is okay:
Quote:
"I was very surprised when I walked onto the floor at Foxconn, how tranquil it is compared with a garment factory," he said. "So the problems are not the intensity and burnout and pressure-cooker environment you have in a garment factory. . It's more a function of monotony, of boredom, of alienation perhaps."

He's just noting the differences between the two industries, and figuring out what to look for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged_Steel View Post

I disagree with your conclusion that " nothing Apple can (or even should) do will change the working situation in China", because manufacturers can build their own facilities and hire who the want and run them as they see fit in quasi-free market China these days. The thing is, how many companies are going to spend more by paying better wages, working employees shorter hours, safer working conditions- etc etc. and therefore hurt their bottom line when they can spend less? The answer is clear- NONE. At least none that I am aware of. All of the companies doing business in China seem to be taking advantage of the situation without regards to what that means to Chinese workeres- and also what that means to the workers in the rest of the world who are out of work because things can be done in China for so much less money. I guarantee you that if Apple or any other megacorp wanted to build their own plants and pay workers decent wages and have better working conditions in China they could, they simply choose not to. There is a big difference between can't and won't.
I definitley agree that this report is "troubling". Apple is under scrutiny for having neo-slave laborers in China, and then suddenly an "independant" study finds that things are actually "First -Class"? Ya right, and in other news, the "fair labor association " has also discovered that the moon is made out of cheese. rolleyes.gif
They can't afford to invest tens of billions of dollars and hire millions of workers to produce their products. These Chinese Workers aren't being forced to work either, they flock to Foxconn when jobs are available, so Apple's actually giving jobs to a heavily overpopulated country -- that's helping them. There's no other company large enough that can handle Apple's work load, and you can't expect them to bring it to the US. That'll cause hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers to lose their jobs, that's Apple's fault too? Right? That aside, the costs are far too exorbitant to import the necessary materials, and pay americans to produce products.

Everyone needs to keep using China, it's just that the Chinese Government need to pass laws for increased pay. That way, everyone wins.

And the auditor didn't say that everything is okay, look at the quote in its entire context.
Edited by steelbom - 2/15/12 at 4:46pm
Kasuf
(9 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 6600K ASRock Z170 Pro4 ASUS Radeon RX 480 ROG Strix Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB 3000MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
Samsung 850 EVO Noctua NH-D15 LG 34" Ultrawide (LG34UC98) Corsair HX750i 
Case
Silverstone FT05B-W 
  hide details  
Reply
Kasuf
(9 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 6600K ASRock Z170 Pro4 ASUS Radeon RX 480 ROG Strix Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB 3000MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
Samsung 850 EVO Noctua NH-D15 LG 34" Ultrawide (LG34UC98) Corsair HX750i 
Case
Silverstone FT05B-W 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged_Steel View Post

I disagree with your conclusion that " nothing Apple can (or even should) do will change the working situation in China", because manufacturers can build their own facilities and hire who the want and run them as they see fit in quasi-free market China these days. The thing is, how many companies are going to spend more by paying better wages, working employees shorter hours, safer working conditions- etc etc. and therefore hurt their bottom line when they can spend less? The answer is clear- NONE. At least none that I am aware of. All of the companies doing business in China seem to be taking advantage of the situation without regards to what that means to Chinese workeres- and also what that means to the workers in the rest of the world who are out of work because things can be done in China for so much less money. I guarantee you that if Apple or any other megacorp wanted to build their own plants and pay workers decent wages and have better working conditions in China they could, they simply choose not to. There is a big difference between can't and won't.
I definitley agree that this report is "troubling". Apple is under scrutiny for having neo-slave laborers in China, and then suddenly an "independant" study finds that things are actually "First -Class"? Ya right, and in other news, the "fair labor association " has also discovered that the moon is made out of cheese. rolleyes.gif

I agree that companies should take actions to better conditions--but the practical question is what would happen, and how much would help, and is it one company's responsibility to do so? Does the fact that Apple has more cash on hand than the US government mean that they should spend more money to make their products than other companies? The fair person in me says no (but the mean person in me says yes! biggrin.gif). But the problem with saying that Apple should spend more, make their own factories, etc. is problematic because (a) Apple has no expertise in doing this, but more importantly (b) it would directly oppose the other companies there. I would assume that the workers at this "apple" plant would also be better-treated and probably get paid more too. That would put huge strains on the general work-force environment to levy wage increases at other areas--could be pretty chaotic.

All of this is a socioeconomic state issue, and will have to take a long time to grow out of. The US went through the industrial revolution over 200 years ago, and only 50-60 years ago did working environments (safety and conditions) really change. But we're talking about a different country with different cultural beliefs--the same outcome that the US saw after the industrial revolution might not manifest to nearly the same degree.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K Biostar TP67B+ XFX HD5750 1GB 2x4GB DDR3 Corsair 1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
60GB OCZ SSD, 2x160GB HDD RAID0, 500GB+500GB+1.5TB Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Samsung SyncMaster 930B Antec SmartPower 450w 
Case
Antec 900 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K Biostar TP67B+ XFX HD5750 1GB 2x4GB DDR3 Corsair 1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
60GB OCZ SSD, 2x160GB HDD RAID0, 500GB+500GB+1.5TB Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Samsung SyncMaster 930B Antec SmartPower 450w 
Case
Antec 900 
  hide details  
Reply
post #10 of 21
ya I lolled at this too, why were they using IPads? also do you think these workers are going to put down what they really feel? there is no anonymity in a COMMUNIST REGIME - CHINA.

this all boils down to another publicity stunt by Apple to cover its ass.



-doober
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Technology and Science News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [MacRumors] Fair Labor Association Offers Initial Impressions on Foxconn Audit as iPads Used to Collect Survey Data