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[Xbit] Nvidia Kepler Yields Lower Than Expected – Chief Executive Officer. - Page 7

post #61 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by djriful View Post




Interesting, I'm not sure if they are planning push down the 780 at $300 (if there is 7xx series) similar like AMD done with 6970 vs the previous generation and release a 785 GTX instead which is $500 card. But I doubt it since this is 28nm process unlike previous gen.

This is going to be priced like the 8800 Ultra I have a feeling except the performance isn't going to be as much of a jump as it was with the 8800 Ultra. I doubt any of the 7xx (or 6xx) series are going to be priced at the 300 dollar mark. something tells me the 660 or 760 or whatever it ends up being will be 400 to 450 dollars and the prices will just go up from there. I was hoping Nvidia would be competitive with their pricing but they just have a reputation for having high prices.
 
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post #62 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

This is going to be priced like the 8800 Ultra I have a feeling except the performance isn't going to be as much of a jump as it was with the 8800 Ultra. I doubt any of the 7xx (or 6xx) series are going to be priced at the 300 dollar mark. something tells me the 660 or 760 or whatever it ends up being will be 400 to 450 dollars and the prices will just go up from there. I was hoping Nvidia would be competitive with their pricing but they just have a reputation for having high prices.

That's probably going to be Maxwell, although, if the performance jump from Fermi to Kepler is considered big, I can't imagine Kepler to Maxwell.
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post #63 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by djriful View Post



 

Interesting, I'm not sure if they are planning push down the 780 at $300 (if there is 7xx series) similar like AMD done with 6970 vs the previous generation and release a 785 GTX instead which is $500 card. But I doubt it since this is 28nm process unlike previous gen.


It was the 760 that was faster, but its depending on GPGPU or something...I'm going to hazard a guess that nVidia's made a purely great for GPGPU architecture and is using drivers and hardware to change what DirectX/OpenGL says to do in 3D rendering to something more GPGPU based, kinda like how modern CPUs translate x86 instructions to many simpler RISC instructions.
    
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post #64 of 186
keep in mind that Xbit has taken a quote and put it entirely out of context.

the Kepler Yields are low on the GK100 because they are large dies. the Wafer has a predetermined size and you have to fit so many of these dies into that wafer.
Since the only Fab (Fab15) running 28nm is not even at half its production capabilities yet (50,000 of a possible 100,000 per month) and wont be till Q4 this year, its not nvidia's fault that the yields are not ramping up like they would like.

Quote:
He never directly said it is TSMC's fault. He only said Kepler have low yield.

things like this where people DON'T READ don't help either.
Quote:
“Decline [of gross margin] in Q1 is expected to be due to the hard disk drive shortage continuing, as well as a shortage of 28nm wafers. We are ramping our Kepler generation very hard, and we could use more wafers. The gross margin decline is contributed almost entirely to the yields of 28nm being lower than expected. That is, I guess, unsurprising at this point,”

There are no actual signs that the cores are suffering from node issues. just from a lack of production capacity on TMSC's part for not forking out some cash and ramping up the implementation of 28nm fabricators.
Quote:
After expanding its advanced manufacturing capacities with new production lines in 2012, TSMC will be able to produce 24 thousand of 300mm wafers processed using 28nm manufacturing technology in a month in 2012, according to a report from China Economic News Service which quotes Morris Chang, chief executive officer of the company. Based on certain assumptions, it is believed that the 24 thousand wafers output for 28nm process tech will be reached by Q3 2012. By the end of the year the 28nm production capacity is expected to further increase to around 50 thousand.

reference article is itself from xbit http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20111208191531_TSMC_Vows_to_Ramp_Up_28nm_Production_in_2012_Start_20nm_Manufacturing_in_2013.html
Edited by diceman2037 - 2/17/12 at 9:44am
post #65 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

If I am not mistaken, AMD doesn't have a massive surplus of 7970s on the vendor's shelves, they seem to come in at small batches. I would anticipate they aren't publicly "complaining" or bringing to light any issues with TSMC as they have with Global Foundries probably due to the fact they are ruining their business partner relationships.
TSMC and Global Foundries have had issues in the past warning its customers that they are being overly optimistic at times with their projections.
As far as the price hiking its all about competition pricing.
Pricing the 680 or 780 regards to prior nVidia Strategy:
If its faster than 7970, it will be more expensive. How much more will be somewhat related to poor yield expenses.
If it is slower than the 7970, it will be cheaper. They will bleed money trying to sell an inferior card. Regardless of the user experience / driver pros.
Pricing regarding the potential for stealing Market Share:
If its faster than the 7970, it will be priced very similarly, maybe even cheaper.
If its slower than the 7970, it will be priced strickly cheaper, with the potential of a 5 moniker later (i.e. 785) that is not dual-GPU with potential design tweaks.
As far as this $299 rumor, I have only seen the new optimized mid range cards being reportedly priced that way. Anyone thinking the highend 68x/78x name sakes will be this priced this low are delusional. AMD fanboi's claiming that should stop, you make yourselves look really misinformed and regardless everything is rumor at this point.

^^^This^^^ Very true.

Anyone using rumors to make a point is foolish. Let's sees the hard facts the PDX Convention today brings.

Again, if it outperforms the 7970 then the price being higher is expected. No surprise. If it falls below and it's priced higher then AMD wins a lot of customers to gain. Ethier way AMD pricing isn't going to budge if Nvidia comes in higher.

As for people speculating that Nvidia dosent have any way to go bigger next release didnt take note from Fermi. The 500 series had better perfomance and runs cooler than the 400 series did.
     
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post #66 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman2037 View Post

keep in mind that Xbit has taken a quote and put it entirely out of context.
the Kepler Yields are low on the GK100 because they are large dies. the Wafer has a predetermined size and you have to fit so many of these dies into that wafer.
Since the only Fab (Fab15) running 28nm is not even at half its production capabilities yet (50,000 of a possible 100,000 per month) and wont be till Q4 this year, its not nvidia's fault that the yields are not ramping up like they would like.

Are you sure about that? All leaks indicate that kepler is a relatively small chip by nvidia standards. They want an efficient chip this time around.
post #67 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Are you sure about that? All leaks indicate that kepler is a relatively small chip by nvidia standards. They want an efficient chip this time around.

leaks indicate the GK104 is a mid range sized part of around 360mm^2. Kepler's full design on the other hand is still expected to be over 500mm^2

TMSC being completely unprepared for 28nm demand is the cause of 28nm low yields.


just remember, 24kpm is overall, thats not just nvidia's allotment alone. nvidia may be getting as little as 5000 GK104 wafers per month out of tmsc... not alot if you think about it.
Edited by diceman2037 - 2/17/12 at 10:59am
post #68 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escatore View Post

Let's hope so. To be quite frank, I don't mind paying a little bit extra if it means having awesome performance. I also don't want them to rush it out - if there are any problems, I would prefer to have them worked out. I am getting a little bit impatient, but as long as the final product is worth it.

Yes but it's a poor business move to have low yields. With better yields they could have better prices and higher profits. At the very least only a couple of their top-end GPUs should be the ones designed that they know may have poor yields, so they can make better profits with everything else.
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post #69 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

Yes but it's a poor business move to have low yields. With better yields they could have better prices and higher profits. At the very least only a couple of their top-end GPUs should be the ones designed that they know may have poor yields, so they can make better profits with everything else.

Poor yields are an unfortunate circumstance, not a business move. lol
No one chooses to have low yields.
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post #70 of 186
I will still be grabbing a GTX 680 on launch day (if I can get one before they sell out).

Why? Every NVIDIA card i've had have been more or less headache free. My GTX 580 has been the best GPU i've owned, i've had seriously no problems with it. I cannot say the same about the last 3 ATI cards I owned before this 580.
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