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WOW, I Defraged my SSD; not for speed - Page 6  

post #51 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC-Guru View Post

actually, I take that back, aint doing it... dont want to wear down my Agility 3 even if it is running like a potato.. anyway to speed it up?

Google SSD Secure Erase... Sometimes called an F Wipe. It marks the cells as free again.
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post #52 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeteck View Post

You're correct, it will not speed up your drive.. That's not the point of defragging... Its to prevent file corruption due to a heavily fragmented drive...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeteck View Post

Ya think? But that should never happen if its a SSD correct?, and it only happened because it was HEAVILY fragmented...
I'm not saying defrag your drive every week.. Maybe twice a year to keep it in check... Since SSD are becoming more and more the normal type drive, I've started to see more SSD's in systems when they come in for repairs..
Trust me, I was surprised to say the least...
When and if you start to have trouble with your SSD, and before you throw it in the garbage, defrag it once and see if you revive it... You'll be very surprised...

SSDs slow down over time... thats the whole reason why TRIM exists. Your 8GB old SSD does not have this feature. Defragging a modern SSD is going to do nothing but hurt it because TRIM will keep it in like new condition. Even if your SSD doesn't have TRIM there are much better methods to use to get it back to "like new" speeds.

You talk like you know everything about SSDs, but infact you know very little about SSDs, what fragmentation is, and what defragging does. Your advice is going to hurt someone's hardware.

I'm done posting on this thread.. It clear that no one is going to be able to talk sense into you. I just hope someone doesn't read this and start doing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter View Post

DId you edit your post? It was different initially, I hit quote, and it was this in the reply?

Yeah, I tend to edit my posts a lot.. bad habbit. tongue.gif
Edited by Murlocke - 2/17/12 at 10:38am
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post #53 of 67
I'm glad I came into this thread... good pick-me-up. lol.
 
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post #54 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

You are telling people to do something that will dramatically lower the lifetime of their SSD. It won't hurt the SSD anymore than running a benchmark on it? Simply by understanding what defragging does will tell you that's not true.
Do NOT defrag your SSDs. Fragmentation is not going to affect a SSD's speed, it has .1ms access time anywhere on the device. It doesn't matter where the files are located. All you are doing by defraging is lowering it's life time by doing massive amounts of unneeded write cycles. I really don't care if you defrag your SSD, but don't come on here recommending others to do so. I would hate to see someone read this and start defraging their SSD on a regular basis.
Also Duckie is pretty much a god when it comes to this stuff, he is rarely wrong and after reading his posts over the years, I pretty much take what he says as law. If you question him, he will backup his claims with proof (as shown above tongue.gif).

whaa....dont forget Sean t00! biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

You know there is a difference in defragging a SSD vs a HDD, the OS knows where the data on the HDD, thus when you defrag, it moves adjusts the most used files to the outer locations of the disk's platters to increase the speeds. Since SSDs have flash memory and has a controller that takes care of wear leveling, when you defrag, it is a waste of writes to the drive on the drive, the OS thinks it knows where it is, but it really does not. It simply tells the SSD to read and write the data over in a certain location, but the controller of the SSD actually tells the data where to go. So the OS does not know where it is. As a matter of fact SSDs fragment data on purpose. SSD controllers use multiple channels (typically 8-10) to improve performance (like RAID0). Fragmenting data helps to ensure best performance. Defrag programs assume that LBA (Logical Block Addresses) are fixed to a specific physical point on the hard disk. For example, LBA=1 is next to LBA=2, which is in turn next to LBA=3. This is not the case for SSDs as LBAs for flash pages change based on its wear leveling algorithm! Even if a file is stored in sequential blocks according to its LBA address (ie. the file is not fragmented according to the OS/defrag program), it might be sprawled across several flash chips!
You could have simply done a secure erase and it would have sped the SSD back to stock speeds.

Thx for the info.

Even at Crucial, there's an answer one why defrag shouldn't be done:
Quote:
Question

Can defragmenting an SSD just once cause a loss of performance, or is that something that occurs only if done regularly?

Answer

The short answer is this: you don't have to defrag your SSD.

To understand why, we need to look at the purpose of defragmenting. Defragging ensures that large files are stored in one continuous area of a hard disc driveso that it can be read in one go. Mechanical drives have a relatively long seek time of approximately 15ms, so every time a file is fragmented you lose 15ms finding the next one, And this really adds up when reading lots of different files split into lots of different fragments.

However, this isn't an issue with SSDs, because the seek time is about 0.1ms. You aren't really going to notice the benefit of defragged files--which means defragging has no performance advantages with an SSD.

An SSD moves data that's already happily on your disk to other places on your disk, often sticking it at a temporary position first. Thats's what gives defragmenting a disadvantage for SSD users You're writing data you already have, which uses up some of the NAND's limited rewrite capability, -- with no performance advantage to be gained from it.

So basically, don't defrag your drive because at best it won't do anything, at worst it does nothing for your performance and you will use up write cycles doing it. Having done it a few times ain't gonna cause you much trouble, but you don't this to be a scheduled, weekly type thing.

--> http://forum.crucial.com/t5/Solid-State-Drives-SSD-Knowledge/Does-defragmenting-an-SSD-cause-any-long-term-performance-loss/ta-p/71051

There's even a whitepaper from O&O (a company that makes a defrag software o&o defrag) stating why defragmenting shouldnt be done. --> http://www.oo-software.com/en/docs/whitepaper/ood_ssd.pdf

If you are unwilling to listen to what we are stating based on credentials, experience or knowledge, then reading up those sources backs up what every here has stated.
Edited by Raiden911 - 2/17/12 at 10:47am
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post #55 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerm1970 View Post

I use Diskeeper which prevents fragmentation and also includes a module specifically for SSDs called Hyperfast.
Absolutely no fragmentation on my drives at any given time.
I use it at work on all of our servers and workstations as well and have noticed BIG performance gains with spinning drives.
Though I'm not exactly sure of the differences between the functionality for SSDs as opposed to HDDs, I'm sure it's all covered here:
http://www.diskeeper.com/home-use/diskeeper/hyperfast/overview/
Check it out for yourself with the Free 30 Day trial! thumb.gif
I'm not affiliated with Diskeeper in any way, nor am I being compensated in any way for the endorsement.
Just trying to share some info based on my personal experience using the product for about 5-6 years.
Pointless.... This program has no way of knowing how the various controllers actually store data.

What the controllers present to the OS is different from how the data is actually stored.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeteck View Post

Ya think? But that should never happen if its a SSD correct?, and it only happened because it was HEAVILY fragmented...
I'm not saying defrag your drive every week.. Maybe twice a year to keep it in check... Since SSD are becoming more and more the normal type drive, I've started to see more SSD's in systems when they come in for repairs..
Trust me, I was surprised to say the least...
When and if you start to have trouble with your SSD, and before you throw it in the garbage, defrag it once and see if you revive it... You'll be very surprised...
SSDs are suppose to be fragmented..... fragmentation is a requirement for maximum SSD performance so your point is moot. Futhermore, fragmentation has nothing to do with file corruption... so this point is also moot.

If a SSD is capable of being defragmented, then it is still working... so why would anyone throw it out? They could always do a secure erase.
Once again...
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post #56 of 67
yup, lots of good to know info here biggrin.gif
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post #57 of 67
Just finished reading through all the posts in this thread, and I must say, I wish I had some popcorn 'cause this was plenty entertaining! thumb.gif
    
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post #58 of 67
i dont want to regurgitate anything said. but definitely a good thread for ssd knowledge and software tools. if you cut out the crappy parts, it could be a suitable sticky. thumb.gif
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post #59 of 67

Just answering directly to OP, you might have experiment a placebo effect. Defrag did improve the SSD speed might have cause by or probably fix be the index table not the file location. The defrag part was a waste but the regenerated index did not.

 
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post #60 of 67
Another SSD owner here, do not Defrag it does nothing for performance, only wears the cells out faster.

Placebo or other issues existed which coincided or temporarily averted by the "appeared defrag."
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