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Please Contribute! - OCN WC Tubing Database - Page 17

post #161 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by The EX1 View Post

What brand radiators are you currently using? Most brands allow you to get away with boiling hot water and vinegar solutions if you let it soak for a few hours. I would really only recommend Part 1 of the Blitz kit if you are using Alphacool or Phobya radiators. There reputation for dirty radiators has caused a lot of negative light to be cast upon them. So much so that an Alphacool rep came onto OCN and they are now supposedly cleaning up the units before shipping them out. I do love the performance of Alphacool radiators though :DBlitz Part 2 is mainly a surfactant that will lift and flush debris out of the loop. Part 2 is also a Ph balancer so it will return your loop back to a neutral Ph. Ph test strips can most likely be found a local drug store or pool supply store thumb.gif

You have a lot of radiator in that build and a big ass case which helps you expand if you choose to. One thing you need to realize though is that the positive pressure inside your case is hurting your radiator performance even in a P/P configuration. The positive pressure it fighting your radiator fans and is not allowing the air to travel as quickly through the radiator as possible. As your loop begins to heat up, the problem will begin to compound as the air coming off your radiators and entering the case is of course hot. Hot air expands and will continue to fight your radiator's airflow. I would recommend balancing your airflow out if you mount your radiators internally. I know less dust is a huge plus but is it worth the cost of constantly worrying about tubing issues? Not to mention, fluid temps that high will also reduce the life of your pump.

Edited for spelling..

Thanks for the reply!

So I use Alphacool and to my surprise they were very clean. That doesn't mean I didn't rinse them serverl times with warm water, shook them well to release gunk and then finally rinsed with distilled water.

As mentioned I could only order the basic kit which cleans the entire loop. So I'll have to live with that. I'll use vinegar to clean the rads.
BUT - I'm too lazy to strip it all off, so I'll have to come up with a way to soak and rinse while rads are placed in rig but disconnected from loop.

To take your advise on the positive air pressure, I had a thought about it today and I thought of installing additional 120mm fan on the lower back of the case so I'll have 2 exhaust fans which will reduce the pressure in the case and help to get rid of the hot air quickly.
Bare in mind, this is a huge case with many holes at the back. Building pressure in this case is not easy so I don't think the rads are fighting that hard. It was more of an issue if I was using anything from mid-tower to smaller cases.
Also, the two front intake 140mm fans, helps to push the hot air to the back of the case which has less resistance.
The introduction of a new 120mm exhaust fan to the lower part, will help to suck the hot air from the bottom rad, therefore preventing the hot air from reaching the GPU's / mid part of the case, with the help of the 2 front fans.

P.S. - ordered a PH testing kit for $2.5 from ebay smile.gif
boy oh boy, this liquid cooling hobby of mine is quite expensive and requires high attention on every detail. Wife is going to kill me.
This is my first ever custom cooling build and I went far and large with the way I decided to configure it (counter clockwise, two rads, inner tube in tube res) so I'm quite proud of it. Just hoping it won't become a headache because I want to enjoy it and not only do expensive time consuming maintenance.
If I could, I would open a company to create exactly what WC demanding people need -> as close as possibly can to zero maintanance loop. We've put a man on the moon... I believe what I'm asking for is not that hard smile.gif
(what a huge P.S.)
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post #162 of 185
Positive pressure arrangements of rads will indeed slow the airflow through them because they are competing with each other for exhaust access and creating the positive pressure you want. That slight reduction is much less than results from feeding rads with the exhaust from another in an effort to 'balance' airflow. In reality truly balancing airflow is very difficult and it will change with the fan speed as resistance changes with speed through obstructions far more than in open sections.

The air flow created by convection is totally insignificant at the low temps of a water loop and especially when compared to airflow levels that are easily crated by fans. Even at low speeds a couple of rads will completely recycle the entire volume of a case several times a minute.

In most cases a positive pressure rad arrangement gives lower water temps, not higher.
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post #163 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by The EX1 View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil80 View Post

Thank you very much for the info. I real eye opener.
So I've made my own test on the EK PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advance LRT tube (3/8" 5/8").
I submerged part of it in a tub with about 40deg water temps for about 2 hours.

So except my hairy hand, it clearly shows the issue.

As for adding extra radiator
My case is Phanteks Enthoo Primo.
I use 420/60 with P/P configuration and 280/45 in P/P configuration.
The large rad feeds the GPU directly and the smaller rad feeds the CPU.
I use two water reservoirs.
My loop is counter clockwise.

I need to revisit my case specs to see what is the size of the extra rad I can fit and where. I believe it will about max of 240/30mm rad in push or pull only.
How much it will be efficient in controlling the temp at max 40, in Sydney summer with two R9 290? I doubt it biggrin.gif

Also, please note that my case is configured for positive air pressure, meaning that all fans are intake (pushing air to the case)
and only the rear fan is exhausting the hot air. Sounds counter intuitive but the case is very clean for a carpeted room full of dust. This obviously contributes to higher temps inside the case.
I never knew that it's an issue. So after reading your edit, I'm left with two extra issues on top the ones I've got already biggrin.gif
1. In Australia they don't import the PRO kit. And here's a quote from a seller in Australia I emailed yesterday
I did purchase the basic kit and I'm waiting for it. So I hope it will help to clean the majority of the loop because I really can't go through the hassle of stripping apart my Enthoo Primo case to take the top rad out and clean more than I already did. You literally have to take almost every available screw and mount on the case in order to place that 420mm rad.
So, question is, where do I get a PH testing kit and if it's too high/low how do I amend it?

2. Without the Pro kit, what else can I do to clean the rad as best as possible?

What brand radiators are you currently using? Most brands allow you to get away with boiling hot water and vinegar solutions if you let it soak for a few hours. I would really only recommend Part 1 of the Blitz kit if you are using Alphacool or Phobya radiators. There reputation for dirty radiators has caused a lot of negative light to be cast upon them. So much so that an Alphacool rep came onto OCN and they are now supposedly cleaning up the units before shipping them out. I do love the performance of Alphacool radiators though :DBlitz Part 2 is mainly a surfactant that will lift and flush debris out of the loop. Part 2 is also a Ph balancer so it will return your loop back to a neutral Ph. Ph test strips can most likely be found a local drug store or pool supply store thumb.gif

You have a lot of radiator in that build and a big ass case which helps you expand if you choose to. One thing you need to realize though is that the positive pressure inside your case is hurting your radiator performance even in a P/P configuration. The positive pressure it fighting your radiator fans and is not allowing the air to travel as quickly through the radiator as possible. As your loop begins to heat up, the problem will begin to compound as the air coming off your radiators and entering the case is of course hot. Hot air expands and will continue to fight your radiator's airflow. I would recommend balancing your airflow out if you mount your radiators internally. I know less dust is a huge plus but is it worth the cost of constantly worrying about tubing issues? Not to mention, fluid temps that high will also reduce the life of your pump.

Edited for spelling..
Well this is basically what happened to me. I originally have all fans on all radiators as intake which is fine for single gpu. After upgraded to two gpus, things getting out of hand. With the amount of heat being dumped by the gpus, water temps increased instead because of the unbalanced in/out airflow & the amount of heat also worsening the cooling performance. When I changed the fans on top radiator as exhaust it's a lot better now. My Corsair SP120's that known to rattle when running at low to mid rpms with certain fan controller, are now rattling because it doesn't need to spin at higher rpms anymore. (I let the fan controller to automatically control the rpm according to the temp change)
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post #164 of 185
Be sure to post up your Ph results! I am interested.
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post #165 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

Positive pressure arrangements of rads will indeed slow the airflow through them because they are competing with each other for exhaust access and creating the positive pressure you want. That slight reduction is much less than results from feeding rads with the exhaust from another in an effort to 'balance' airflow. In reality truly balancing airflow is very difficult and it will change with the fan speed as resistance changes with speed through obstructions far more than in open sections.

The air flow created by convection is totally insignificant at the low temps of a water loop and especially when compared to airflow levels that are easily crated by fans. Even at low speeds a couple of rads will completely recycle the entire volume of a case several times a minute.

In most cases a positive pressure rad arrangement gives lower water temps, not higher.

So should I change the layout of the top rad fans to outtake or not? smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by The EX1 View Post

Be sure to post up your Ph results! I am interested.
Will do. I'll do a before clean and after
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post #166 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil80 View Post

So should I change the layout of the top rad fans to outtake or not? smile.gif
Will do. I'll do a before clean and after

Not all cases will be the same but the testing I have read, and the testing I did with multiple air and water sensors, all showed lower water temps with rads intaking and a single exhaust.
If you have a water sensor, even just a cheap one, try for yourself and see what you get. I would totally bet intaking would work best in your case.
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post #167 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

Not all cases will be the same but the testing I have read, and the testing I did with multiple air and water sensors, all showed lower water temps with rads intaking and a single exhaust.
If you have a water sensor, even just a cheap one, try for yourself and see what you get. I would totally bet intaking would work best in your case.

I have a water sensor which is connected to my tube res.
The tube res gets its water after they are cooled from my bottom 280/60mm rad in P/P config.
On idle after about 1 hour operation and room temps about 25~27 deg, the water temp is on 33~36.
On full GPU stress (3x 1920x1200 monitors) running 2x R9 290 while playing BF4 on max settings (except AA which is on x2) water temps gets to 45deg, and GPU temp is maxed at 70deg.
But again, the sensor is not measuring the intake water to the top rad which is fed by the hot water from the GPU.
So I don't know how accurate the water temps are.
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post #168 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil80 View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

Not all cases will be the same but the testing I have read, and the testing I did with multiple air and water sensors, all showed lower water temps with rads intaking and a single exhaust.
If you have a water sensor, even just a cheap one, try for yourself and see what you get. I would totally bet intaking would work best in your case.

I have a water sensor which is connected to my tube res.
The tube res gets its water after they are cooled from my bottom 280/60mm rad in P/P config.
On idle after about 1 hour operation and room temps about 25~27 deg, the water temp is on 33~36.
On full GPU stress (3x 1920x1200 monitors) running 2x R9 290 while playing BF4 on max settings (except AA which is on x2) water temps gets to 45deg, and GPU temp is maxed at 70deg.
But again, the sensor is not measuring the intake water to the top rad which is fed by the hot water from the GPU.
So I don't know how accurate the water temps are.
The difference between in/out only a couple of degrees. That Celsius right? Water temp too high IMO.
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post #169 of 185
The 45deg?
What can I tell you... Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
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post #170 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil80 View Post

The 45deg?
What can I tell you... Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
No, I said that based on your water temp when idle. If your room temp is in 25 to 27C, the water temp should be under 30C.

I don't know about your load temp because I don't know at what clocks your cards running at & you're running multiple monitors.
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Koolance Ball Valve VLV-BL1X2 XSPC D5 Dual Bay Reservoir/Pump Combo Hardware Labs Black Ice GT Stealth 360mm Hardware Labs Black Ice SR-1 120 
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