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post #101 of 369

Hi I've been using manual voltage for forever (since the SB chips came out) and don't need an OC for 100% 24/7 load anymore so manual is not practical anymore and I'd like to switch to offset but am a little confused.

My settings are (BIOS 2103 or the latest whatever it's version number is for the Z77 Sabertooth)

BIOS:

All Cores Target CPU Turbo-Mode Speed: 4500MHz

Ai Overclock Tuner: Auto

ASUS MultiCore Enhancement: Enabled

Turbo Ratio: By All Cores

By All Cores (Can Adjust in OS): 45

Internal PLL Overvoltage: Disabled

Memory Frequency: 1600 MHz

EPU Power Saving Mode: Disabled (I'd like to be able to turn it back to on)

 

>CPU Power Management:

everything is set to auto except turbo mode which is enabled

>Digi+ Power Control

CPU Load-Line Calibration: High

CPU Voltage Frequency: Manual

CPU Fixed Frequency: 350

CPU Power Phase Control: Optimized (was Extreme)

CPU Power Duty Control: Extreme

CPU Current Capability: 140%

CPU Power Thermal Control: 130

CPU Power Response Control: Ultra Fast (was auto)

DRAM Current Capability: 100%

DRAM Voltage Frequency: Auto

DRAM Power Phase Control: Auto

DRAM Power Thermal Control: 110

 

CPU Voltage: Manual Mode

- CPU Manual Voltage: 1.355v

DRAM Voltage: 1.35v

VCCSA Voltage: Auto

CPU PLL Voltage: 1.49375v

PCH Voltage: Auto

DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHA: Auto

DRAM CTRL REF Voltage on CHB: Auto

CPU Spread Spectrum: Auto

BCLK Recovery: Auto

 

I'd like to re-enable my C-states and the iGPU for Virtu-MVP acceleration ( I was using offset +.9 and had iGPU enabled and got BSOD x124 after closing my online game client and the BSODs wouldn't go away happened about 3 minutes after login fixed it by going back to manual)

 

CPU-Z and RealTemp under Prime 95 Blend Mode Load:

RealTemp VID 1.3561 idle, 1.3611 under load

CPU-Z Core Voltage: 1.336v it has dropped below that occasionally to 1.286v for like half a second (it blinks to 1.286 then back to 1.336v before you can blink sometimes I think I'm seeing things it's gone so fast)

CPU-Z Core Speed: 4523-4524 MHz

CPU-Z Multiplier: 45

CPU-Z Bus Speed: 100.49-100.53 MHz

Max temps in Realtemp under Blend Load 68C on Air cooling

 

So what do I set the offset to in BIOS?


Edited by phazer11 - 2/13/13 at 12:59pm
     
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post #102 of 369
The formula is Vcore - VID = offset, so in your case I would set the smallest possible positive offset (probably +0.005) and see what that actually delivers under load (it's going to vary a little becuase of Vdroop). Then you can go back in and change the offset a little if the delivered voltage isn't what you need.

I would leave the EPU Power Saving setting disabled - all you need to do for power saving is enable the specific CPU settings (EIST, C1E, C3 and C6 in the BIOS and Balanced for the Windows Power Plan). IF you run into crashes at idle or when resuming from sleep, try disabling C3 and C6 Report.
Edited by Forceman - 2/13/13 at 1:29pm
post #103 of 369

The lowest positive offset I can get to the login screen with is .05v and it just BSOD'ed after I typed in my password. The lowest positive offset voltage that doesn't BSOD on me within 3 minutes of login is .075v and that raises the vcore to 1.42v on load and  the idle voltages are jumping around from 1.072-1.140v. Prime Blend is not automatically BSODing me but the temps are hotter of course.


Edited by phazer11 - 2/13/13 at 1:56pm
     
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post #104 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by phazer11 View Post

The lowest positive offset I can get to the login screen with is .05v and it just BSOD'ed after I typed in my password.

you need to find out your VID reading for the frequency you want to clock at. To view this CoreTemp will show VID.
Since you know you need 1.35 volts to be stable, load your CPU using that voltage and look at the VID.

So now for offset you need the VID + offset. So if the VID is 1.18 and you need 1.35 to be stable you need an offset of 0.17 to be stable.
CPU-Z may show VID voltage now in the newer versions, not sure.
Each frequency has a different VID, so you need to check this when you want to clock higher or lower.

So an offset of 0.05 is most likely way undervolting your CPU.
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post #105 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by phazer11 View Post
......

CPU-Z and RealTemp under Prime 95 Blend Mode Load:

RealTemp VID 1.3561 idle, 1.3611 under load

CPU-Z Core Voltage: 1.336v it has dropped below that occasionally to 1.286v for like half a second (it blinks to 1.286 then back to 1.336v before you can blink sometimes I think I'm seeing things it's gone so fast)

CPU-Z Core Speed: 4523-4524 MHz

CPU-Z Multiplier: 45

CPU-Z Bus Speed: 100.49-100.53 MHz

Max temps in Realtemp under Blend Load 68C on Air cooling

 

So what do I set the offset to in BIOS?

 

Two posts up that has what RealTemp and CPU-Z says with manual voltage.

     
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post #106 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by phazer11 View Post

Two posts up that has what RealTemp and CPU-Z says with manual voltage.

I think I know the problem. Have you tried reading your VID with CoreTemp? http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/
This is what I read from the documentation of Real Temp for VID
Quote:
Core VID

This is the Minimum and Maximum voltage that your processor will request from your motherboard when the Voltage is set to AUTO or Default in the bios. Depending on your motherboard and how it is set up this voltage request may be ignored. Core VID is a suggested voltage and may not be the same as the actual core voltage that your processor receives. Use a program like CPU-Z to report actual core voltage. Core VID is no longer supported with the new Core i7 processors.

I don't think the VID reading on Realtemp is accurate.
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post #107 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by prescotter View Post

Yes indeed,

With HIGH LLC, a ''lower'' offset is needed to achieve same load voltage.

With LOW LLC you need "in comparison to HIGH LLC" a higher offset voltage to get the same 100% Load voltage.



But with a HIGH LLC, the ''In Between Load VID, not the Maximum VID, but the lower VID used with 60%-70%-80% load will get lower voltage.


Because LLC gives ''MORE VOLTAGE'' on higher loads, while with a LOW LLC its not.

My 2500k could be stable with a High LLC, and a Low Offset, but it would crash on Loads like Gaming / Converting Movies.
While it was 100% stable in P95 / IBT.

What i try to say is; If you get 100% load stable in IBT / P95, but crash on Medium/High Loads, You should try a Low LLC with a High Offset


Example of how LLC and the Offset you get on a load:

These are the + Offset voltages, not actual vcore offcourse
LLC LOW: 25% load=+0.100v, 50% load=+0.075v, 100% load =+ 0.025v

LLC HIGH: 25% load=+0.025v 50% load = +0.050v, 100% load = +0.100v

So if you use a Low LLC, with a High Offset voltage, the CPU will get more voltage on a lower load, in comparison to a high LLC.


Sometimes IBT uses 1 VID higher then P95, so the Exact CPU Voltage will vary with load differenes,
But with a low llc, the actual vcore will be closer the the ''maximum vcore'' you will see on a cpu-z..


Yea sorry if it is all very hard to understand, english is not my native language wink.gif

But the thing is that with my system in Medium LLC, the voltage shown in CPU-Z when running IBT is lower compared to voltage shown in CPU-Z when running Prime95. I tried to set the load voltage when running Prime95 same to that of when running Ultra High LLC and I am able to do that but then IBT crashes because as I've said the voltage is lower. With Ultra High LLC, the voltage in Prime95 is approximately the same as the voltage in IBT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

The formula is Vcore - VID = offset, so in your case I would set the smallest possible positive offset (probably +0.005) and see what that actually delivers under load (it's going to vary a little becuase of Vdroop). Then you can go back in and change the offset a little if the delivered voltage isn't what you need.

I would leave the EPU Power Saving setting disabled - all you need to do for power saving is enable the specific CPU settings (EIST, C1E, C3 and C6 in the BIOS and Balanced for the Windows Power Plan). IF you run into crashes at idle or when resuming from sleep, try disabling C3 and C6 Report.

Why Balanced for the Windows Power Plan?
post #108 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

Why Balanced for the Windows Power Plan?

High Performance keeps the CPU from downclocking, unless you manually change the min processor state.
post #109 of 369

Here is what I'm seeing figured it'd be easier to show you

 

     
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post #110 of 369
The easiest thing to do is just set an arbitrary offset (say +0.05) and then boot into Windows and run a stress test. Compare the voltage you are getting there with what you need (the fixed voltage) and then go back in and change the offset so it matches. That eliminates worrying about what the VID is and it also automatically accounts for the LLC setting. So if the +0.05 offset gives you 1.325V and you know you need 1.375V you'd just change the offset to +0.1 and you are all set. You may also need to disable C3 and C6 in the BIOS if you are getting crashes at idle, as those settings sometimes don't play nice with offset voltages.
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