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post #241 of 369
If I use Throttlestop to turn off EIST on my system, it locks the CPU to the idle freq (1600). Even when running Prime it stays at 1600, and the voltage draw at the wall is much lower than with EIST on (and the chip at 4600). If I turn it off while the chip is at load, it'll still idle down though. So something is screwy with it.
post #242 of 369
If you want to control the multiplier with ThrottleStop, you need to have EIST enabled. If EIST is disabled, the CPU can get locked at whatever frequency it was previously at. You also need to be using the High Performance profile to prevent ThrottleStop fighting with Windows over control of the CPU.
Edited by unclewebb - 2/20/13 at 9:55pm
post #243 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb View Post

Most computers are set up so when the CPU is working on something it will be in the C0 state and when a core has nothing to do, it will enter the low power C1 state so unless there is a problem with Windows or the bios, C1 is always available. There is actually an way you can disable C1 and prevent your CPU from using any C states. The performance improvement when benching is so tiny that I don't think anyone should bother but here's how if you are interested.

http://forum.techinferno.com/throttlestop-realtemp-discussion/2925-how-get-c0%25-%3D-100%25.html

Preventing a CPU from entering C1 mostly just creates heat. RealTemp will report the load as a constant 100%, even when idle, because the RealTemp Load value is really just showing the percentage of time the CPU is in the C0 state.

1) If you disable C1E then the CPU will spend its time in C1 instead. Either way, we are not talking about a huge percentage of time that a CPU will end up in C1 or C1E.

2) The package C States on my board are kind of interesting. When I enable that in the bios, the CPU power consumption might decrease but the power consumption at the wall increases. I haven't figured out why yet but it seems like it is another unresolved bios issue. Asus had a lot of BSOD issues on their G53 and G73 laptops when the C package states were enabled so I am starting to wonder about what new technology their engineering team have come up with. Power consumption at the wall should definitely not go up when you enable the C Package states but on this board it does.

3) The point of all this is to spend as little time as possible at all of those intermediate multipliers. When a CPU has something to do, get it up into the C0 state at the maximum speed to get the job done as quick as possible and then get it back into the low power C6 state. This minimizes power consumption and maximizes performance. Kind of a win win situation.

Thanks.

1.) Well, how do we make the CPU spend as little time as possible at the intermediate multipliers if, in our boards, we cannot truly disable EIST?

2.) How would Offset be a disadvantage in this case? As far as I understand, when using Offset the CPU will still go to C0 state fairly quickly (to get the job done) and then go back to C6 state (when the job is finished), right? My point is, like Forceman, why not use Offset together with C3/C6 and get the advantage of both worlds? I would like to understand what is the DISADVANTAGE of using Offset now that we know that we really can't stop our CPUs from frequency fluctuation. With Offset my idle power consumption is 95W while in Manual (fixed vcore) it is 103W, a 8W difference.
Edited by kevindd992002 - 2/20/13 at 9:23pm
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post #244 of 369
The Asus board I am using ignores the EIST request in the bios but you can disable EIST using software like RealTemp after you boot up. If you are using C6, there is no need to disable EIST. It doesn't make any difference so you might as well leave it on.

If you are seeing an 8 watt difference then you need to look at your testing a little closer. Before making any comparisons, make sure your computer has had a chance to settle down after booting up. Depending on what you have running on your system, this might take a while. Keep a close eye on the RealTemp Load % to make sure it is low and not fluctuating so you can make a fair comparison between different settings. Some programs only start working when the CPU is idle. If you have programs like that running in the background, it might be difficult getting repeatable and comparable results.

Post a RealTemp and RealTemp -C States window when your CPU is idle like I posted.

If you are using the C Package states, disable them when doing your initial testing.

The low power C6 state is like pulling the plug and disconnecting your house from the power grid. If your cores are spending over 99% of the time in C6 at virtually zero volts, no change in voltage should result in an 8 watt difference in power consumption. What are you using to measure power consumption?
post #245 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb View Post

The Asus board I am using ignores the EIST request in the bios but you can disable EIST using software like RealTemp after you boot up. If you are using C6, there is no need to disable EIST. It doesn't make any difference so you might as well leave it on.

If you are seeing an 8 watt difference then you need to look at your testing a little closer. Before making any comparisons, make sure your computer has had a chance to settle down after booting up. Depending on what you have running on your system, this might take a while. Keep a close eye on the RealTemp Load % to make sure it is low and not fluctuating so you can make a fair comparison between different settings. Some programs only start working when the CPU is idle. If you have programs like that running in the background, it might be difficult getting repeatable and comparable results.

Post a RealTemp and RealTemp -C States window when your CPU is idle like I posted.

If you are using the C Package states, disable them when doing your initial testing.

The low power C6 state is like pulling the plug and disconnecting your house from the power grid. If your cores are spending over 99% of the time in C6 at virtually zero volts, no change in voltage should result in an 8 watt difference in power consumption. What are you using to measure power consumption?

I did test them when the computer is stable and the results were repeatable. I closed all apps and services running to make an accurate reading.

I will post a screenshot later.

There is no C Package states setting in my BIOS so I assume they are enabled by default because the Package State for C6 in RealTemp shows that my CPU is in Package State C6 65% of the time when idle.

Exactly. I was expecting no change in result between Offset and Fixed vcore as long as C6 is enabled. This makes me wonder why Offset has lesser idle power consumption given they virtually have the same close-to-0 voltage. Maybe, the current draw is more in Fixed vcore than in Offset accounting for the 8-Watt difference. I am using an APC BR-1500GI UPS to measure power consumption and I'm pretty sure this is accurate like a Kill-a-Watt meter.

My big question though is why do you think Fixed vcore is better than Offset? When you do any task in a computer, the CPU rarely stays at 1.6GHz anyway but it is still better that at idle it goes to 1.6GHz. Or are you saying that the only reason that Fixed vcore is better than Offset is because you can make your system stable (when overclocking) easier with it?
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post #246 of 369
If it is drawing more power in fixed that could be because when it momentarily clocks up to an intermediate frequency (since it is never really idle) it is also going to the full fixed voltage - as we assume would happen - while in offset it is going to a lower voltage (and so lower power draw). That is happening hundreds of times a second, so the averaging could be working out to the 8W difference. If so, that kind of confirms our theory about offset and intermediate frequencies.
post #247 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

If it is drawing more power in fixed that could be because when it momentarily clocks up to an intermediate frequency (since it is never really idle) it is also going to the full fixed voltage - as we assume would happen - while in offset it is going to a lower voltage (and so lower power draw). That is happening hundreds of times a second, so the averaging could be working out to the 8W difference. If so, that kind of confirms our theory about offset and intermediate frequencies.

Yes, that makes sense. I tried this comparison between Offset and Fixed multiple times, and I always get a lower idle power consumption with Offset. In that case, Offset will give you more power savings if you leave your PC 24/7 turned on and most of the time (including your sleeping time) is in idle mode.
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post #248 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

Yes, that makes sense. I tried this comparison between Offset and Fixed multiple times, and I always get a lower idle power consumption with Offset. In that case, Offset will give you more power savings if you leave your PC 24/7 turned on and most of the time (including your sleeping time) is in idle mode.

Makes sense indeed.
What difference will it make in power usage when using offset with C3/C6 DISABLED ?
Average ofcourse, no need to make exact measurements biggrin.gif
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post #249 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffie82 View Post

Makes sense indeed.
What difference will it make in power usage when using offset with C3/C6 DISABLED ?
Average ofcourse, no need to make exact measurements biggrin.gif

Haven't tried to measure the difference with that yet but I'll do it for you when I get home. I'm expecting this to be a significant difference.
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post #250 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

Haven't tried to measure the difference with that yet but I'll do it for you when I get home. I'm expecting this to be a significant difference.

Ok thanks, maybe I'll just let go of the 1,5% gain in FPS when the difference is really significant biggrin.gif
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