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[Anand] Understanding TLC NAND

post #1 of 21
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Here's an interesting read on NAND: SLC, MLC, TLC. It provides good information about NAND endurance and insight towards a possible future for SSDs.

Source
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnandTech 
Forking over $700 for a 512GB SSD sounds crazy because a 500GB hard drive can be had for less than $50. Smaller capacities like 64GB and 128GB can already be bought for around $100 and $200 respectively, but unless you have the ability to have an SSD plus hard drive combo, such a small SSD doesn't usually cut it. If you have a desktop, the SSD + HDD combo should not be a problem but many laptops only have space for one 2.5" drive (unless you are willing to mod it afterwards by replacing the optical drive). SSD prices have been dropping for years now, but if the current rate continues it will take years before a $399 Walmart PC includes a reasonable size SSD. So what can be done?
post #2 of 21
Where's he finding these mythical " less than 50 dollar" 500GB drives? A year ago you could do that easily, but no longer. Even Hitachi wants $80+, and IIRC, they weren't affected by the floods to the extent the other companies were.

But yeah, I just got finished with this article. Should we re-name MLC to "DLC"..?

Also, I like how Anand agrees with me, it will be YEARS before SSDs start showing up in mainstream machines. I was flamed to death for commenting (last year) that it would be 2014 before it happened, and what'd'ya know, there's a very serious professional all but agreeing with me. rolleyes.gif
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post #3 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity View Post

Where's he finding these mythical " less than 50 dollar" 500GB drives? A year ago you could do that easily, but no longer. Even Hitachi wants $80+, and IIRC, they weren't affected by the floods to the extent the other companies were.
But yeah, I just got finished with this article. Should we re-name MLC to "DLC"..?
Also, I like how Anand agrees with me, it will be YEARS before SSDs start showing up in mainstream machines. I was flamed to death for commenting (last year) that it would be 2014 before it happened, and what'd'ya know, there's a very serious professional all but agreeing with me. rolleyes.gif

Yeah I am thinking they are either writing from past history or the article was wrote a long time ago.

And I definitely agree that it will be a while before they are main stream...if for no other reason than about 50% of the world seems to think that a 750GB hard drive is faster than a 500GB hard drive. A 120GB SSD will be too slow for them. *Resists urge to run around slapping people* I have found all too often that people will equate hard drive size to CPU speed.

I am surprised at how SSDs have done in the Server world. They are getting almost...common already. The reduced cooling and energy saving combined with the performance increase is enough to over come the higher start up costs.
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post #4 of 21
750-1000 erase cycles -- no thanks
I'll stick with MLC
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post #5 of 21
SLC > MLC > TLC in terms of P/E cycles and read/write times. Guess we'll be seeing price drops in SSDs, but TLC NAND seems to be worst than MLC despite its lower price.
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post #6 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity View Post

Where's he finding these mythical " less than 50 dollar" 500GB drives? A year ago you could do that easily, but no longer. Even Hitachi wants $80+, and IIRC, they weren't affected by the floods to the extent the other companies were.
But yeah, I just got finished with this article. Should we re-name MLC to "DLC"..?
Also, I like how Anand agrees with me, it will be YEARS before SSDs start showing up in mainstream machines. I was flamed to death for commenting (last year) that it would be 2014 before it happened, and what'd'ya know, there's a very serious professional all but agreeing with me. rolleyes.gif

Hi, I'm Kristian Vättö, the author of this article.

It's true that most of this article was written before the Thailand hard drive crisis, although I did reference to that as well:

"SSD prices are still up in the clouds when compared to hard drive prices (especially before the Thailand floods) so for many, SSDs have not been a realistic option."

I was also talking about the situation in general and how it's been for several years now, not only about today and the current situation. I would also dare to bet that we will see 500GB HDs hitting the $50 price point again far sooner than we will see SSDs hitting $0.50/GB or anything "reasonable" wink.gif

I've also been flamed for saying that SSDs won't be mainstream for years. I think people who say that e.g. Macs will go SSD only in near future don't really understand how NAND works. The price drop is fairly linear, there is no sudden drop in it, unless we change the NAND type.

-Kristian
AnandTech
post #7 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity View Post

Where's he finding these mythical " less than 50 dollar" 500GB drives? A year ago you could do that easily, but no longer. Even Hitachi wants $80+, and IIRC, they weren't affected by the floods to the extent the other companies were.
But yeah, I just got finished with this article. Should we re-name MLC to "DLC"..?
Also, I like how Anand agrees with me, it will be YEARS before SSDs start showing up in mainstream machines. I was flamed to death for commenting (last year) that it would be 2014 before it happened, and what'd'ya know, there's a very serious professional all but agreeing with me. rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

Yeah I am thinking they are either writing from past history or the article was wrote a long time ago.
And I definitely agree that it will be a while before they are main stream...if for no other reason than about 50% of the world seems to think that a 750GB hard drive is faster than a 500GB hard drive. A 120GB SSD will be too slow for them. *Resists urge to run around slapping people* I have found all too often that people will equate hard drive size to CPU speed.
I am surprised at how SSDs have done in the Server world. They are getting almost...common already. The reduced cooling and energy saving combined with the performance increase is enough to over come the higher start up costs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KristianAT View Post

Hi, I'm Kristian Vättö, the author of this article.
It's true that most of this article was written before the Thailand hard drive crisis, although I did reference to that as well:
"SSD prices are still up in the clouds when compared to hard drive prices (especially before the Thailand floods) so for many, SSDs have not been a realistic option."
I was also talking about the situation in general and how it's been for several years now, not only about today and the current situation. I would also dare to bet that we will see 500GB HDs hitting the $50 price point again far sooner than we will see SSDs hitting $0.50/GB or anything "reasonable" wink.gif
I've also been flamed for saying that SSDs won't be mainstream for years. I think people who say that e.g. Macs will go SSD only in near future don't really understand how NAND works. The price drop is fairly linear, there is no sudden drop in it, unless we change the NAND type.
-Kristian
AnandTech

You guys are absolutely correct, don't let the forum kiddies get ya, SSDs are more than likely the future, they are definitely not going to be mainstream for a few more years.

You are correct about pricings prior to flooding, I can remember a time when 500GB 5400 RPM drives brand new were going for 50$, my 1TB 7200 RPM Seagates were purchased for 75$ each.

Thanks for the article was a good read.
Edited by RagingCain - 2/23/12 at 2:38pm
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post #8 of 21
Makes me want to see more SLC drives.
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post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by KristianAT View Post

Hi, I'm Kristian Vättö, the author of this article.
It's true that most of this article was written before the Thailand hard drive crisis, although I did reference to that as well:
"SSD prices are still up in the clouds when compared to hard drive prices (especially before the Thailand floods) so for many, SSDs have not been a realistic option."
I was also talking about the situation in general and how it's been for several years now, not only about today and the current situation. I would also dare to bet that we will see 500GB HDs hitting the $50 price point again far sooner than we will see SSDs hitting $0.50/GB or anything "reasonable" wink.gif
I've also been flamed for saying that SSDs won't be mainstream for years. I think people who say that e.g. Macs will go SSD only in near future don't really understand how NAND works. The price drop is fairly linear, there is no sudden drop in it, unless we change the NAND type.
-Kristian
AnandTech
Quote:
Cell Type SLC MLC TLC
Price per GB $3.00 $0.90 $.60

Prices provided by OCZ

Show me one of the OCZ $0.90 per GB, SSD drives. OCZ has currently 61 different models of ssd and not one, NOT ONE sells for $.90 per GB. $$$$$ Show me $$$$$
Try $1.60 per GB. Your piece is written for the public. Why do you allow a manufacture to quote wholesale prices. You can't do your own research?
Or does that LARGE OCZ BANNER advertisement on the anandtech.com home page do your research for you?
Tell the truth or the rest of article never gets read. "Prices provided by OCZ" makes me LOL.

newegg.com/ocz

amazon.com/ocz
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post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFPS View Post

Quote:
Cell Type SLC MLC TLC
Price per GB $3.00 $0.90 $.60
Prices provided by OCZ
Show me one of the OCZ $0.90 per GB, SSD drives. OCZ has currently 61 different models of ssd and not one, NOT ONE sells for $.90 per GB. $$$$$ Show me $$$$$
Try $1.60 per GB. Your piece is written for the public. Why do you allow a manufacture to quote wholesale prices. You can't do your own research?
Or does that LARGE OCZ BANNER advertisement on the anandtech.com home page do your research for you?
Tell the truth or the rest of article never gets read. "Prices provided by OCZ" makes me LOL.
newegg.com/ocz
amazon.com/ocz

Watch the "shellshocker deals".

A 90GB SSD was for less than $90 today, a week or so back a 60GB SSD was $56.

Deals are there if you will look for them.
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