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[Anand] Understanding TLC NAND - Page 2

post #11 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianJ View Post

Watch the "shellshocker deals".
A 90GB SSD was for less than $90 today, a week or so back a 60GB SSD was $56.
Deals are there if you will look for them.

But these aren't MSRPs which would make a much more valid evaluation of the SSD prices.
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post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFPS View Post

Quote:
Cell Type SLC MLC TLC
Price per GB $3.00 $0.90 $.60
Prices provided by OCZ
Show me one of the OCZ $0.90 per GB, SSD drives. OCZ has currently 61 different models of ssd and not one, NOT ONE sells for $.90 per GB. $$$$$ Show me $$$$$
Try $1.60 per GB. Your piece is written for the public. Why do you allow a manufacture to quote wholesale prices. You can't do your own research?
Or does that LARGE OCZ BANNER advertisement on the anandtech.com home page do your research for you?
Tell the truth or the rest of article never gets read. "Prices provided by OCZ" makes me LOL.
newegg.com/ocz
amazon.com/ocz

I think your mistaken. That's what it costs for OCz to buy them.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
Edited by RagingCain - 2/23/12 at 4:50pm
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post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFPS View Post

Quote:
Cell Type SLC MLC TLC
Price per GB $3.00 $0.90 $.60
Prices provided by OCZ
Show me one of the OCZ $0.90 per GB, SSD drives. OCZ has currently 61 different models of ssd and not one, NOT ONE sells for $.90 per GB. $$$$$ Show me $$$$$
Try $1.60 per GB. Your piece is written for the public. Why do you allow a manufacture to quote wholesale prices. You can't do your own research?
Or does that LARGE OCZ BANNER advertisement on the anandtech.com home page do your research for you?
Tell the truth or the rest of article never gets read. "Prices provided by OCZ" makes me LOL.
newegg.com/ocz
amazon.com/ocz

Here's two around $1 a GB.

$65 for 60gb

$120 for 120gb
post #14 of 21
Personally I don't see SSD's becoming the sole storage solution any time soon. I see it more taking the form of an additional performance part, like a video card or sound card.

Really the bare minimum for a reasonable gaming machine is 120-128 gig for around 120-200$. I don't know how anyone could get away with installing an OS plus a decent amount of programs on less than 60GB of space (when you take into account formatting its closer to 52gb or a bit more).

For a laptop though you really don't need all that much space unless its a "gaming laptop." But then if you look at MSI and ASUS gaming laptops you see them with SSD + HDD combos already.

As far as "mainstream" goes, mainstream laptops and computers really don't need the performance of a SSD. What good is an SSD when you have a dual core and integrated graphics? SSD's are more than accessible to anyone who really wants that kind of speed though right now.
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post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFPS View Post

Quote:
Cell Type SLC MLC TLC
Price per GB $3.00 $0.90 $.60
Prices provided by OCZ
Show me one of the OCZ $0.90 per GB, SSD drives. OCZ has currently 61 different models of ssd and not one, NOT ONE sells for $.90 per GB. $$$$$ Show me $$$$$
Try $1.60 per GB. Your piece is written for the public. Why do you allow a manufacture to quote wholesale prices. You can't do your own research?
Or does that LARGE OCZ BANNER advertisement on the anandtech.com home page do your research for you?
Tell the truth or the rest of article never gets read. "Prices provided by OCZ" makes me LOL.
newegg.com/ocz
amazon.com/ocz

OCZ is the only one who has provided any info on the pricing of TLC NAND. We didn't ask for the info, their CEO showcased it in a media event and the presentation is available to everyone. OCZ did not ask us to put "Prices provided by OCZ" there, I put it there so people would understand that the figures are specifically for one company and may even be biased.

Sure, I would rather compare final products but nobody is selling TLC based SSDs yet so that's impossible. OCZ provided us with some info and I think it's better than nothing. Otherwise we would be playing the guessing game.

Also, you need to remember that the NAND isn't the only cost. Controller, especially if it's 3rd party, isn't cheap. Then manufacturing, shipping etc, - and you should make some profit as well, and so should the retailer.
post #16 of 21
The drop in endurance for going TLC is too much. If they are going to make TLC SSDs they will have to over provision maybe 50% more cells just to make it have acceptable endurance, that will cost more than using MLC. Until materials improve so that TLC are more durable, it's not going to be adequate for mainstream usage.
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post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFPS View Post

Quote:
Cell Type SLC MLC TLC
Price per GB $3.00 $0.90 $.60
Prices provided by OCZ
Show me one of the OCZ $0.90 per GB, SSD drives. OCZ has currently 61 different models of ssd and not one, NOT ONE sells for $.90 per GB. $$$$$ Show me $$$$$
Try $1.60 per GB. Your piece is written for the public. Why do you allow a manufacture to quote wholesale prices. You can't do your own research?
Or does that LARGE OCZ BANNER advertisement on the anandtech.com home page do your research for you?
Tell the truth or the rest of article never gets read. "Prices provided by OCZ" makes me LOL.
newegg.com/ocz
amazon.com/ocz

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227780 $0.86 per GB after rebate and shipping.
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0381969 $0.83 per GB after rebate and shipping.

$0.90 is the wholesale price, which IS the important factor for this article. It shows the difference in build price, which will trickle into the consumer market price. It's not meant to be misleading. (probably)
Edited by Mootsfox - 2/24/12 at 1:35am
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post #18 of 21
Good article.

Although I would like to point out that recently there was news about 1 Gb DDR3 RAM modules hitting as low as 1$ per chip prices - thats 256 MB. So, in essence you get 1 GB at approx 4 $ which seems correct more or less as you can get 4 GB RAM sticks at approx 20$ today.

So if the RAM price keeps that low it might be possible to see SSD's based on DDR3 ships and battery some day in the future as well. Granted, with doday's prices it would be still a bit expensive at approx ~320 $ fro a 64 GB device. Assuming the price of the controller and battery dont add up a lot of cost overhead.

Battery capacity might be an issue as well in that, as 4 GB RAM stick today consumes about ~2W. Lets say you use 1.35 V chips and relatively low refresh rates cutting it down to 0.5W. For a 64 GB module youy would be still looking at power consumption of approx 8W. Thats 192 Wh a day or 1.344 kWh a week. So it would need quite a battery or to be constantly plugged in.
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post #19 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

Good article.
Although I would like to point out that recently there was news about 1 Gb DDR3 RAM modules hitting as low as 1$ per chip prices - thats 256 MB. So, in essence you get 1 GB at approx 4 $ which seems correct more or less as you can get 4 GB RAM sticks at approx 20$ today.
So if the RAM price keeps that low it might be possible to see SSD's based on DDR3 ships and battery some day in the future as well. Granted, with doday's prices it would be still a bit expensive at approx ~320 $ fro a 64 GB device. Assuming the price of the controller and battery dont add up a lot of cost overhead.
Battery capacity might be an issue as well in that, as 4 GB RAM stick today consumes about ~2W. Lets say you use 1.35 V chips and relatively low refresh rates cutting it down to 0.5W. For a 64 GB module youy would be still looking at power consumption of approx 8W. Thats 192 Wh a day or 1.344 kWh a week. So it would need quite a battery or to be constantly plugged in.

At that point, It would be a more viable option to go back to the style of old physical ramdisk boards.

At any rate, the battery wouldn't need to be huge as long as it is coupled with a non-volatile data storage device. It would work on the same principles as oldschool physical ramdisk boards. Small battery to keep things running is power is suddenly dropped, long enough for data to be copied to the non-volatile storage before shutdown. Upon reboot, data is copied back to the ramdisk.
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post #20 of 21
I don't care if ssd are mainstream. I love their prices now. Years ago I brought two 32 gigs for 160. Now I could get 2 64 gigs at that price that are much faster. But I don't care to have that much space on my OS so I'm not in any rush to upgrade.

My laptop's are not used for storage. I would hate to carry around my storage on a laptop that could be stolen or dropped and is subject to a ton of more abuse. 128 gig ssd would be perfect for my needs on a laptop. Watch movies. Put together projects. Decode a few things and make large transfers to my desktop.

I'm not the norm. 500 gig ssd going down in price would make me happy because now I can get my smaller OS drives for even cheaper.

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My System
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i5 4690k msi z97 gaming 5 evga 980 ti G.SKILL Sniper Series 16GB 
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samsung 950 HP dual layer Windows 7 64 27 dell ips  
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G15 850 TX corsair 540 air G900 
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generic 
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