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[Forbes] Sony Has New Console In The Works, AMD Building Graphics - Page 8

post #71 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXMark View Post

You must have missed the part where it said "In order for me to buy a console"!

Nope tongue.gif I was just saying.

EDIT: Derp doh.gif I meant yup, not nope.
Edited by andrews2547 - 2/24/12 at 12:15pm
    
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post #72 of 99
I kinda wish Microsoft and Sony would just team up on a joint console, they wouldn't have to compete anymore and games could be specifically programmed for one system.
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post #73 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by tconroy135 View Post

I kinda wish Microsoft and Sony would just team up on a joint console, they wouldn't have to compete anymore and games could be specifically programmed for one system.

The lack of competition would be as detrimental as it would be beneficial.
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post #74 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by tconroy135 View Post

I kinda wish Microsoft and Sony would just team up on a joint console, they wouldn't have to compete anymore and games could be specifically programmed for one system.

Yay! $900 console with $120 games. DO NOT WANT.
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post #75 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimeracaust View Post

Yay! $900 console with $120 games. DO NOT WANT.

Nope tongue.gif There will still be competition from PC, and if the prices are that high then more people will join the PC gamers, especially seeing as you can get/build a PC that can run any game for around the same price as that. + There is also PC things like Steam that would keep the prices of games down. I bet if Steam wasn't around games would already cost $120 each.
    
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post #76 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

Nope tongue.gif There will still be competition from PC, and if the prices are that high then more people will join the PC gamers, especially seeing as you can get/build a PC that can run any game for around the same price as that. + There is also PC things like Steam that would keep the prices of games down. I bet if Steam wasn't around games would already cost $120 each.

I really don't think Steam is single handedly responsible for keeping the price of CONSOLE games down... I doubt 1/10 of the people I know with consoles even know what Steam is, let alone use it.
    
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post #77 of 99
Lets hope Microsoft and Sony feel the hest from PC developers and up the GPU side. >7770 + >2GB RAM would be sweet. and would blow the '720' away.
post #78 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

It's basically a gimped APU where each SPE doesn't have access to system memory, so it doesn't really matter that it's faster in terms of number crunching. Games aren't really CPU-bound, it is beyond me why Sony made the decision to use a processor like the Cell.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to compare it to a dual-core RISC processor with 7 small, on-die graphics cards each containing two shaders where each shader is capable of processing one 4-wide vector consisting of four 32-bit numbers? The SPEs are 4-wide vector SIMD (somewhat similar to ATI VLIW-4 without the ILP). There's actually quite a bit of similarity with Cell, Larabee, GCN, and Fermi though cell is designed for the individual SIMDs to be capable of independent processing (a MIMD array of sorts) making the Cell SPE a bit more programmable than GCN or Fermi, but probably less than the Larabee prototypes.

I'm curious; what the problem is with the Cell in the PS3? The only one I can think of is that people program it in C when a language such as J or APL would probably achieve better results.

OT: has Toshiba considered shrinking its SpursEngine to 28nm?
Back in '08, Engadget reported that the 65nm 1.5 GHz 4 SPE chip (10-20 watts) was twice as fast at video transcoding as a 3Ghz core2 Quad. The chip would probably be competitive when compared to a quad-core Sandybridge today (especially when power consumption is factored in). If it were shrunk to 28nm and clocked higher, the chip would undoubtedly outperform any x86 chip at transcoding while using only a few watts of power and without having the quality issues that seem to happen with GPU transcoders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

X1950 is just an overclocked X1900 except the XTX which has GDDR4.
All the X1900 and X1950 cards have the same core config just different clock speeds (except as previously mentioned the X1950XTX which has GDDR4); the clocks on the 360's GPU are very similar if not exactly the same as the AIW version.
TBH I couldn't find any direct comparisons of any X1900 and the 6670 so I instead looked at a review of the 2900XT, the first ATI card to use VLIW, and compare its performance to the X1950 Pro. Then, ignoring the architectural differences, I adjusted the X1950 Pro numbers for the clock speed of the 360's GPU and then scaled the 2900XT numbers up to the core config and clock speed of the 6670. Despite that graph showing otherwise, those numbers are in a synthetic benchmark (that says that the GTX 580 is 23% faster than the HD 6990)... whatever, if I'm actually wrong, I apologize.
EDIT: For the record, according to Anandtech, on average the 2900XT with 320 VLIW stream processors is more than twice as fast as the X1950 Pro. The 6670 has 480 SPs and some have GDDR5. Even if you account for the 6670 having 37% less memory bandwidth you still get a number significantly higher than 73%. On top of that the 6670 GDDR5 does 768 GFLOPS whereas the 2900XT does 475 (can't find numbers for the X1900 series).

No need for the extrapolation on the xenos performance. Wikipedia states that it is 240 GFLOPS. This means that the 6670 is a little better than 3x faster and (due to architecture improvements) the avaliable GFLOPS are more usable.
Edited by hajile - 2/24/12 at 9:03pm
post #79 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post

Wouldn't it be more accurate to compare it to a dual-core RISC processor with 7 small, on-die graphics cards each containing two shaders where each shader is capable of processing one 4-wide vector consisting of four 32-bit numbers? The SPEs are 4-wide vector SIMD (somewhat similar to ATI VLIW-4 without the ILP). There's actually quite a bit of similarity with Cell, Larabee, GCN, and Fermi though cell is designed for the individual SIMDs to be capable of independent processing (a MIMD array of sorts).
I'm curious; what the problem is with the Cell in the PS3? The only one I can think of is that people program it in C when a language such as J or APL would probably achieve better results.
OT: has Toshiba considered shrinking its SpursEngine to 28nm?
No need for the extrapolation on the xenos performance. Wikipedia states that it is 240 GFLOPS. This means that the 6670 is a little better than 3x faster and (due to architecture improvements) the avaliable GFLOPS are more usable.

The problem is that games generally only need a few threads that have access to the same shared memory and then a couple of threads for asset loading. This ends up being perfect for the Xbox, where each core can do complex tasks and have access to the system memory. With the cell processor you have to get creative with making many small tasks you can feed a queue to try and keep the cell's SPEs busy. It is a lot of work to utilize the cell processor, not because it is advanced, but rather because of their limited capability and lack of access to shared memory. Things like virtual function calls, which are at the heart of modern object-oriented programming, are a huge pain on the PS3 because the SPEs don't have access to the memory in which the v-tables are defined, so you end up having to pass the v-table information to the SPE, wasting precious bandwidth along that pipeline just so you can use a virtual function (something that has been around for 15+ years). Xbox development is much simpler, program it on a PC, very much like you would for a PC, except direct to the hardware, no stupid gimmicks to try and use the whole CPU. Efficient multitasking is important, but that doesn't mean a CPU should be designed to force crazy stuff to be done through multithreading as the only option. /rant
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post #80 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI View Post

Somebody needs to make a dedicated gaming OS. I'm sick of hearing about how bad Windows is for games.
Funny thing, if it ever did happen, Microsoft would loose at least half of their user base.

IT wouldn't matter if a gamingOS was made. you would still need an API like direct X because if the various types and combinations of hardware its not windows fault.
     
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