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[Fud] Kepler GK104 cards in production - Page 8

post #71 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post

Unlocking isn't guaranteed, nor is OC'ing.

even at stock cfx 6950 blows away 580's for the same price. but thats 2 vs1 and not fair frown.gif
post #72 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthedes View Post

even at stock cfx 6950 blows away 580's for the same price. but thats 2 vs1 and not fair frown.gif


if its the same price its fair
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post #73 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr0sty View Post

if its the same price its fair

well then, there you go its fair!
post #74 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlademaster01 View Post

Considering that the Cayman was designed for a 32nm process but ended up 40nm, yes their dies are getting bigger and bigger.
I agree with the emboldend part, the rest of the post sounds like your interpretation of the situation not AMDs strategy.
AMD makes up for the smaller die size with a higher clocked ASIC. Aside from being 389mm² AMD still has to fit the GPU into a certain power package. Especially for their scalable design strategy (dual GPU high end).
You know, this statement would actually be viable if every mm² of silicon adds gaming performance. The reverse can also be said, why does nVidia build a 520mm² to counter a 389mm² -- actually they don't know the exact meassurements/metrics of the competing projects, but they have a general idea. nVidia generally ends up discarding less features in each architecture than AMD does. Fermi for example was more focused towards HPC and a lot of computational hardware was pointed towards geometry. Aside from that the CUDA architecture and ECC support also called for expansion. As a result of this and some more implementations nVidia applied a lot more modularity in their ASIC than AMD, which on its turn asks for more wiring. And wiring actually takes up the most space on a die. Excessive interconnect also causes a lot of clock skew and more variation in binning, making physics management more complex and nominal clock targets harder to achieve.
Aside from the 550Ti vs 6770 you're comparing crippled ASICs vs fully enabled, optimised and clocked ones. The comparisons are a bit pointless.
Anyone can make a big die that runs fast!
Lol, seriously? tongue.gif
nVidia definately had the hardest job last generation -- don't get me wrong, they chose for it to be that way willingly. I get the impression that a lot of people brand manufacturers as idiots because the chip lost in physics at gaming benchmarks.
Building a large chip is definately harder than building a small, scalable, optimised one. Why do you think nVidia still hasn't completely fixed Fermi after 3 respins? You need to do a lot more timing optimization with a big die and you'll also get a lot of variance in binning. Getting the clock targets and yields straight are other quests on itself. I think you have a different perception of VLSI development.

+1 Rep

Now if we can get back on thread topic. Looks like Kepler is in production. Woot. wink.gif
     
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post #75 of 226
I'm with you, i'm looking forward to real benchmarks. I'm most interested in the BigK which apparenly isn't coming until late Q3, but hopefully real numbers will put the silly arguments on both sides to an end.
Edited by xoleras - 2/26/12 at 7:05am
post #76 of 226
My God, this war between fanboys is almost worse than playing CoD where 12year olds tell you how dirty your mom is.

I for one, buys what has the most performance. I do not care if its AMD or Nvidia, or if one card uses 50w less than the other.
We are on OCN for Christs sake! Does "The pursuit of performance" mean anything at all to some of you? Less power is good no doubt, but I would choose the stronger card compared to the performance per watt winner every single time.

Anyways, I am very exited that they finally is starting to produce these cards! Can't wait to see how the performance is and how it will compete with AMD's 28nm smile.gif
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post #77 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by go4life View Post

My God, this war between fanboys is almost worse than playing CoD where 12year olds tell you how dirty your mom is.

I for one, buys what has the most performance. I do not care if its AMD or Nvidia, or if one card uses 50w less than the other.
We are on OCN for Christs sake! Does "The pursuit of performance" mean anything at all to some of you? Less power is good no doubt, but I would choose the stronger card compared to the performance per watt winner every single time.

Anyways, I am very exited that they finally is starting to produce these cards! Can't wait to see how the performance is and how it will compete with AMD's 28nm smile.gif

+ rep. Made my day.
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post #78 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlademaster01 View Post

Aside from the 550Ti vs 6770 you're comparing crippled ASICs vs fully enabled, optimised and clocked ones. The comparisons are a bit pointless.

The comparisons are not pointless - they're quite valid. I highlighted the 560Ti, a fully functional card, vs. the 6950, a partially disabled card. The 6950 wins by 6%, is 7% larger than the 560Ti, and the die isn't even fully functional! Meanwhile, the 6970 is only 7% larger than the 560Ti (since it's the same die as the 6950) and outperforms it by 16%. Thus Cayman is roughly 9% faster than GTX 500 given the same die space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlademaster01 View Post

Anyone can make a big die that runs fast!
Lol, seriously? tongue.gif
nVidia definately had the hardest job last generation -- don't get me wrong, they chose for it to be that way willingly. I get the impression that a lot of people brand manufacturers as idiots because the chip lost in physics at gaming benchmarks.
Building a large chip is definately harder than building a small, scalable, optimised one. Why do you think nVidia still hasn't completely fixed Fermi after 3 respins? You need to do a lot more timing optimization with a big die and you'll also get a lot of variance in binning. Getting the clock targets and yields straight are other quests on itself. I think you have a different perception of VLSI development.

What's that got to do with anything? That was their design choice, and if it isn't working for them, that gives my point even more credibility. Is that not the whole point of AMD's Sweet Spot strategy? They avoid the gigantic, monolithic dies of doom and the headaches associated with creating them, and are better able to optimize their smaller units.

Now, Nvidia absolutely had some wins over AMD with their Fermi refresh. They beat AMD in heavy tessellation applications. CUDA is much easier to program for than AMD's APP, which generally allows them to score much higher in compute benchmarks. Driver support is much better... AMD flopped pretty bad last fall, and Nvidia's still killing AMD at Skyrim. Also, from what I understand, GTX 500 overclocks a bit better than HD 6000.

However, in regards to gaming specifically, AMD had the better architecture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomtomb View Post

Uh oh. Watch out boys. We got an AMD fanboy trolling an Nvidia Kepler thread.... Why??

A fan boy wouldn't have facts to back themselves up. Brand doesn't matter to me... I'll get what's better for my dollar. Thanks for showing how brainwashed you are by the Kepler hype... you clearly didn't read my post.
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post #79 of 226
^That is a +rep worthy post if I've ever seen one.

March is going to be a real fun month smile.gif
    
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post #80 of 226
it sure is, the MSI 7950 TFIII will be released and then i can start reading benches of that vs kepler.

and build an ivy bridge build with whatever card comes out best for my euros biggrin.gif
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