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post #11 of 29

I see 2 other possibilities:-

 

1) Despite all your previous effort, there are still small air inside the loop and they are coming out periodically.

 

2) As I see you are using the MCP35X with PWM, I suspect the temperature-rpm curve is probably too aggressive, either intentionally set up by you or by default.

So, during an intensive gaming session, temperature rises and the pump speed increases accordingly in a significant way.  It is so 'significant' that it causes a 'cavitation' effect which introduces bubbles into the loop.

 

I suggest you to try a less aggressive temp-rpm curve.  As you are using an Asus motherboard and I assume you have plugged the MCP35X into the motherboard's CPU fan header, you can use Asus' AI Suites/Fan Xpert to setup a more gentle relationship as well as a not-so-high top speed.

post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicodemus View Post

oh? how come? is it because of the expansion thing mentioned earlier? how full, then ,should it be?
thanks everyone for helping out and being patient with me. this is my first loop and i just want it go right and be healthy. =)
so, i guess i assumed that since i was always supposed to be working out air bubbles that i was going for a 100% filled res.
so then, since i shouldn't have a 100% filled res, should i just ignore the bubbles then?
my temps are great.
thanks!

part of the point of a reservoir is to allow for expansion, yes. I would suggest you have it 80-90% full, and for the purposes of troubleshooting, you place a piece of painters tape at your new "full" level. then you can be certain of the water level. Once you're at this point, you shouldn't see a substantial loss of water level, unless the loop is still bleeding itself, or you are losing water.
 
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post #13 of 29
Thread Starter 
thanks for all the great info, everyone! i'll try and apply this new knowledge to my maintenance. =)

windfire, do you have a temp-rpm curve to recommend?
Edited by nicodemus - 2/25/12 at 10:06pm
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post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicodemus View Post


windfire, do you have a temp-rpm curve to recommend?

MCP35X runs at ~1300rpm (for complete silence) to ~4500rpm (for ultra high flow).

 

I recommend setting up a 2-step curve:- one constant low speed when the system is idling and under light load (eg browsing) and another higher constant speed when the system is under heavy load (eg gaming).

 

The shape is like below:-

2-step curve.jpg

 

asus fan xpert sample curve for mcp35x.JPG

 

These numbers are very rough estimate as they all depend on the thermal performance of your 2500K at 4GHz and your own personal preference for temperature.

Just use this as a starting point and continue to fine tune according to your own liking.

 

If you wish to use a more feature rich program, consider Speedfan.  It has much more features but also more complicated.
 

 

post #15 of 29
Thread Starter 
thanks windfire! i was planning on just changing it in the BIOS, but i may look into that ASUS program. speedfan is too complicated for my tastes.
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post #16 of 29
I had this exact same issue almost two years ago, the longer I ran my computer the more micro bubbles would form in the reservoir. Since I'm only running a CPU block and only one GPU block my pump (Laing DDC 3.25 18W) still had a very strong flow, I was using acrylic tubes in my EK reservoir and the micro bubbles were formed simply because there was way to much water turbulence going on in the reservoir. I could see the bubbles being formed as the water disturbed the pocket of air in the top of the reservoir, I removed the tubes and the bubbles never came back!
post #17 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Systemlord View Post

I had this exact same issue almost two years ago, the longer I ran my computer the more micro bubbles would form in the reservoir. Since I'm only running a CPU block and only one GPU block my pump (Laing DDC 3.25 18W) still had a very strong flow, I was using acrylic tubes in my EK reservoir and the micro bubbles were formed simply because there was way to much water turbulence going on in the reservoir. I could see the bubbles being formed as the water disturbed the pocket of air in the top of the reservoir, I removed the tubes and the bubbles never came back!

good to know that i'm not crazy. =)

right now i'm messing with lower pump rpms to try and minimize the water disturbance, since i don't really have any tubes or pipes i can remove.

*edit* still seems to happen, even with low rpm transitions in the pump. will keep looking. =/
Edited by nicodemus - 2/26/12 at 7:02am
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post #18 of 29
You may still have a significant pocket of air trapped somewhere in the loop, likely in a radiator(s).
Air likes to collect in the radiator(s) because the water flow splits into multiple parallel flow paths through them, greatly reducing the velocity, which allows small and micro bubbles to escape the flow and form a large bubble in the plenum chambers of the radiator.

If you have a top mounted radiator, this is an especially common issue.

If you have your MCP35x pumps set up to run at a low PWM setting at idle and light usage temps, the flow velocity is very low through the radiator(s), which helps air collect there.
When the pumps speed up, the flow velocity increases, and some of the air gets entrained back into the flow.

Try kicking your pumps up to 100%, and laying the case all the way onto its side, preferably with the outlet port of the radiator higher than the inlet port.
Be sure that water will still be above the reservoir outlet to the pump when the case is on its side though.

Get physics working for you instead of against you. wink.gif

With my rig, I find that it helps to let the pumps run at a low speed for a while to allow larger bubbles to form, then bump them up to 100% for a couple of minutes to push the big bubbles out.

Alternatively, if your temperatures are good, don't worry about the bubbles, they will eventually work themselves out. biggrin.gif

Windfire's advice to set up a 2 step speed profile is pretty good, it is how I have mine set, but I use Speedfan.
It avoids the constant ramping up and down you get if they are following a curve.
The Asus software is extremely easy to use, but doesn't allow for as low of a minimum speed as Speedfan, and only allows for a user defined profile for one of the PWM fan headers.
I'm using Speedfan to control my pumps and my fans off separate headers.

Speedfan offers much more options than the Asus software, but is orders of magnitude more complex to learn and set up.

2 MCP35x pumps run off the PWM fan header on my GTX470 video card.
443

9 Akasa Viper fans run off the CPU PWM fan header.
444

490

492
Edited by Caleal - 2/26/12 at 7:51am
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post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Systemlord View Post

I had this exact same issue almost two years ago, the longer I ran my computer the more micro bubbles would form in the reservoir. Since I'm only running a CPU block and only one GPU block my pump (Laing DDC 3.25 18W) still had a very strong flow, I was using acrylic tubes in my EK reservoir and the micro bubbles were formed simply because there was way to much water turbulence going on in the reservoir. I could see the bubbles being formed as the water disturbed the pocket of air in the top of the reservoir, I removed the tubes and the bubbles never came back!

This is a case where an existing known pocket of air was being broken up, and it's not yet clear whether the OP's loop has a hidden bubble that would cause this effect.

Another possibility is that there is a very tiny slow leak, such that any water coming out evaporates before it can be detected.

I actually have a question about the full reservoir comments if anyone with any engineering/physics knowledge can shed some authoritative light on it. AFAIK the thermal expansion of water over the quantities and temperatures you will find in a standard PC cooling loop makes for only a very small effect, something on the order of 0.5% of volume or less. If you have a little air in the res, that would indeed act as a pressure buffer. But even if your loop is completely full, I would think the tiny change in pressure could be handled by the flexibility of the tubing. FWIW I run my loop completely full without any ill effects biggrin.gif
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post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by threephi View Post

This is a case where an existing known pocket of air was being broken up, and it's not yet clear whether the OP's loop has a hidden bubble that would cause this effect.
Another possibility is that there is a very tiny slow leak, such that any water coming out evaporates before it can be detected.
I actually have a question about the full reservoir comments if anyone with any engineering/physics knowledge can shed some authoritative light on it. AFAIK the thermal expansion of water over the quantities and temperatures you will find in a standard PC cooling loop makes for only a very small effect, something on the order of 0.5% of volume or less. If you have a little air in the res, that would indeed act as a pressure buffer. But even if your loop is completely full, I would think the tiny change in pressure could be handled by the flexibility of the tubing. FWIW I run my loop completely full without any ill effects biggrin.gif

bad idea, a friend of mine ran his loop completely full for about 3 weeks, he used 3/8 tubing over 1/2 barbs with clamps, all of a sudden one time during a game session one of his tubes split at the barb going into the res.
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