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[ExT] Could a bricked Tesla battery cost you $40,000? - Page 10

post #91 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendo Maniac 64 View Post

The concept of electric vehicles have several benefits without even going into anything about whether it's environmentally friendly or not, such as fuel price and lower maintenance.
...you DO realize that a hybrid is going to be more expensive than a pure EV, right? It's just like how a GTX 590 will cost more than a GTX 580 due to having two "engines" rather than one.

To be fair, there are other costs associated with buying an electric vehicle, the first and most important one that comes to mind is the specified charging station that you need to buy (thinking specifically about Tesla, but it's also true with the nissan leaf), which runs about $2k plus tax and other various fees. That equates to 20 oil changes assuming high-priced synthetic $100/change. Assuming an average of 6 months between oil changes, that's 10 years of oil changes. Being conservative and getting them more frequently, let's say 7-8 years. The benefits aren't there. Not much else needs replacing in a normal quality car in 7-8 years. Maybe a belt here and there. It's not like an electric vehicle is showing much cost promise yet over the normal lifetime of a vehicle. I'm not giving them a hard time since they're quite new, but it's inappropriate to paint the picture that taking gasoline out of the picture means it costs less over the lifetime of the vehicle.
    
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post #92 of 123
But if quick-chargers had an actual standardized charging plug, it would be a one-time investment for any future EV purchases. Not only that, but in case of Tesla vehicles, you can charge them overnight on a standard 220 outlet perfectly fine, completely negating the need to even purchase a quick-charger.

Also, the thing about less maintenance isn't so much about cost as it is convenience. It's like an SSD vs a HDD - less moving parts means less things that can break, which means less inconvenience. thumb.gif
Edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 - 2/28/12 at 4:02pm
 
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post #93 of 123
I think there are already some pseudo-standards for EV receptacles. One of the bigger problems that I see is that if electric cars become commonplace enough to significantly impact gasoline consumption, the taxes that are paid per gallon of gas will no longer be paid, or at least paid to the same degree that they are now. That means that the tax will be levied on electricity rates, and in places where per kwh rates are already high (ironically, I'm talking about California, the liberal hippy ecomentalist capital of the world), people are going to get cornholed perhaps more with their EV than if they continued buying gas and maintaining a ICE-based vehicle.

Something to think about.
    
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post #94 of 123
Is it me, or are a lot of people acting as if electricity is free or something?
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post #95 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendo Maniac 64 View Post

But if quick-chargers had an actual standardized charging plug, it would be a one-time investment for any future EV purchases. Not only that, but in case of Tesla vehicles, you can charge them overnight on a standard 220 outlet perfectly fine, completely negating the need to even purchase a quick-charger.
Also, the thing about less maintenance isn't so much about cost as it is convenience. It's like an SSD vs a HDD - less moving parts means less things that can break, which means less inconvenience. thumb.gif

I'm not talking about quick-charging, I'm talking about the general charging station that needs to be installed wherever you park your car. You don't simply plug the car into your house's mains--it needs a proprietary power block, which is a purchase in addition to the cost of buying the car.

I don't think people generally go with cars that have fewer maintenance points because it's more convenient for them--it's almost always because it costs less. Besides, just because an electric car doesn't have a combustion engine doesn't mean it still won't need to follow a regular maintenance schedule. It still has tires, brakes, air conditioning, and all sorts of other components. Only difference is an oil change for the most part.
    
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post #96 of 123
Wake up call:

Giant, highly advanced facilities dedicated to producing electricity, aka power plants (of ANY form), are and will always be more efficient at turning raw mass or energy into usable power than a small combustion engine with restraints on weight, size, and cost, will EVER be.
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post #97 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

I'm talking about the general charging station that needs to be installed wherever you park your car. You don't simply plug the car into your house's mains--it needs a proprietary power block, which is a purchase in addition to the cost of buying the car.

I don't know about other cars like the Nissan Leaf, but Tesla's have them built right into the vehicle - it's a function of what's called the "Power Electronics Module":
http://www.teslamotors.com/roadster/technology/power-electronics-module

Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

I don't think people generally go with cars that have fewer maintenance points because it's more convenient for them--it's almost always because it costs less. Besides, just because an electric car doesn't have a combustion engine doesn't mean it still won't need to follow a regular maintenance schedule. It still has tires, brakes, air conditioning, and all sorts of other components. Only difference is an oil change for the most part.

Seeing that Tesla's next vehicle is a luxury sedan, I do believe convenience WILL be a factor to the target audience. Also, due to regenerative braking, the frequency for replacing the traditional brakes are considerably lower in an EV.

And what are these "all sorts of other components"? The only things I can think of that would EVER need to be semi-regularly replaced are what you just stated - tires, brakes (less frequently), and perhaps windshield washer fluid.


EDIT: Unless you're talking about components that can fail that would need replacing. Even then, an ICE has like a thousand moving parts, and at least the Tesla Roadster has something like only 12.
Edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 - 2/28/12 at 4:20pm
 
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post #98 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Wake up call:
Giant, highly advanced facilities dedicated to producing electricity, aka power plants (of ANY form), are and will always be more efficient at turning raw mass or energy into usable power than a small combustion engine with restraints on weight, size, and cost, will EVER be.

Coal plant efficiency is around 35%
a modern gas engine is 30%
a modern turbo diesel is 45%

So no, you are incorrect.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendo Maniac 64 View Post

And what are these "all sorts of other components"? The only things I can think of that would EVER need to be semi-regularly replaced are what you just stated - tires, brakes (less frequently), and perhaps windshield washer fluid.

Batteries. And thats a big one.
Edited by Lombax - 2/28/12 at 4:27pm
    
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post #99 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanoprobe View Post

I was looking at a Ford Escape hybrid a while back. I tend to keep vehicles for a long time but passed on the Escape when I learned it would cost $7,000- $9,000 to replace the batteries. That would more than offset the money saved on the extra mileage.

This is what keeps electric cars from being worth while at this time. Current battery tech is to low for such things to be useful to the general public right now. I think its great though, when a company such as Tesla make's a fine electric "Toy" and people get all bent out of shape. The Roadster is marketed to people looking at high end exotic cars in the first place, these people have money to blow on fancy sports cars that get dirt for gas millage and cost a ton to keep in proper maintenance. ITS A TOY, just like an Elise or a Vexhal, a total toy (and waste of money to most people). only the well of can dream of owning such a toy for a short time and it take's some one with great financial security to maintain such a car.

That's why Tesla markets their cars as toy's, So they can charge an arm and a leg for them witch is how they can afford to R&D better battery tech...read more on them, their idea's and where they want to take their company and electric cars before writing them off as junk. They have a better aproch than Ford, handa, gm, toyota you name it. They have it wrong trying to market such cars to the general public when the tech just isn't there yet. look at what it cost's to replace a Prius's battery's....
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post #100 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendo Maniac 64 View Post

I don't know about other cars like the Nissan Leaf, but Tesla's have them built right into the vehicle - it's called the "Power Electronics Module":
http://www.teslamotors.com/roadster/technology/power-electronics-module
Where does the charging port plug into? Surely not a regular wall plug. This is what I'm talking about having to buy: http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectric/charging
Click on the different options, it prices them out. In addition to the purchase of the car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendo Maniac 64 View Post

Seeing that Tesla's next vehicle is a luxury sedan, I do believe convenience WILL be a factor to the target audience. Also, due to regenerative braking, the frequency for replacing the traditional brakes are considerably lower in an EV.

Regenerative braking doesn't equate to a longer lifetime for brakes--that has yet to be seen. But in mentioning the brakes, I wasn't talking specifically about the rotors/discs or pads, but other annoying things such as brake fluid. Tesla states that brake fluid should be changed every 15,000 miles (that's their 7500 mile per year, 2-year term). That's way way more frequently than a conventional gas car. Most gas cars don't need the brake fluid replaced for a good 60k miles. Again, less convenience. I'm not saying that electric vehicles should be maintenance-free, but there's very little difference in maintenance schedules between electric and gasoline cars.
    
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