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[Tom's] Battle At $140: Can An APU Beat An Intel CPU And Add-In Graphics? - Page 2

post #11 of 76
So they overclock the GPU in the APU and not the discrete card that's running with the G620?

Toms site is a joke...
post #12 of 76
How curious. Tom's saying that AMD is bad biggrin.gif

Oh wait... It's the norm rolleyes.gif

Why on earth did they pick the 3870K? There's APUs cheap enough that would let you buy the same GPU they used with the Pentium that would completely trounce it in gaming performance, at the same price.

Edit: There's a 6670 on Newegg at $55 AR. Pick an A6-3600 from Newegg too, crossfire both and see that Pentium be reduced to dust. Oh la vie, it's $140 too!
Edited by Artikbot - 2/29/12 at 2:33pm
   
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post #13 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

How curious. Tom's saying that AMD is bad biggrin.gif
Oh wait... It's the norm rolleyes.gif
Why on earth did they pick the 3870K? There's APUs cheap enough that would let you buy the same GPU they used with the Pentium that would completely trounce it in gaming performance, at the same price.

Are you talking about APU and GPU crossfire or something? I've heard that causes more headaches than it's worth, but that might've been rumor.

EDIT: I just saw where the dual core APU's are about $70, didn't realize they were that cheap. I'm not sure about "trounce" though in a gaming setup head to head. If you have a Microcenter nearby, you have an i3-2100 lurking at the $100 mark that will smoke the AMD chips in gaming.
Edited by Foolsmasher - 2/29/12 at 2:38pm
post #14 of 76
APU's are pretty cool. They have a good enough GPU and are faster than an FX core for core and clock for clock. I am about to upgrade my 3850 to a 3870k.
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post #15 of 76
Tom's has a knack for cherry-picking precise price marks and rigging systems in favor of Intel. Indeed, Artikbot has a good point. A cheaper A6 with graphics should beat even an i3-2100 with the same GPU. CPU performance is even less of an issue at lower-end graphics levels.
 
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post #16 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by srsdude View Post

Really? An APU will NEVER beat an Intel CPU. I don't even know what the guy writing that article is smoking, must be some really good stuff. An APU is pretty much enough power to do web browsing. Thats about it.

There's a picture on the first post that shows the APU having higher performance with applications.

As far as a processor with just enough power to do web browsing, I think you're referring to the Intel Atom.
post #17 of 76
I'm gonna also chime in with I don't like this article. Plus for the price point you can take a a-6 tri-core and hybrid crossfire with a 6670 and get even better game performance. Plus this part of the article makes no sense under the encoding "Here’s where AMD’s four execution cores come in handy, and the dual-core Pentium G620 is left far behind. It takes an overclock to 3.6 GHz for AMD's APU to beat Intel's 2.6 GHz entry-level CPU." the apu clearly beats it at stock clocks O.o, it's a bit miss leading of you ask me.
 
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post #18 of 76
wth... they left the RAM at 1600MHz... throw some 2133 on that Llano system and it will most likely outperform the G620 + 6670

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Frosty View Post

So they overclock the GPU in the APU and not the discrete card that's running with the G620?
Toms site is a joke...

Yeah and they use crap RAM when the IGP's main bottleneck is memory bandwidth. Definitely biased towards AMD rolleyes.gif

Overclocking the 6670 results in roughly 15% more performance (sources: TweakTown and Tom's) whereas boosting the RAM by 533MHz in a Llano system has been proven to increase performance by 20-25% (source: Anandtech). 6% more performance from Llano and you have higher minimum frame rates than the G620 + 6670.

Also as someone else already mentioned for $150 you can get an A6-3650 (can't find the 3600 in stock anywhere) with a 6570 which should be a LOT faster than an A8 by itself.
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post #19 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foolsmasher View Post

As for suggesting the "form factor limitation", you still need a heatsink on the processor that's going to take up some space. A low profile video card isn't going to eat up much more real estate than that heatsink will. Also, I'd say it's pretty generous to overclock the APU too far, at least in my scenario in a mini-itx case (Origen M10), heat would be an issue.
Please show me some examples in a desktop PC setting where the APU has a "form factor" advantage, I'm not sure what you're referring to.

Both systems would require a CPU heatsink--why does that matter?

By form-factor advantage, I didn't mean desktop cases, I was referencing cases that can't accommodate a full-sized or even reduced-size discrete GPU. My HTPC suffers from that. Laptops and ultrabooks are a great illustration too.

This is a pointless write-up, Tom's or otherwise. For the small form-factor HTPC arena, where case space may not even be a luxury, it doesn't matter how well an equally-priced discrete card setup performs in comparison. If you can't accommodate the card in your case it doesn't matter. That's exactly where AMD's APU is placed in the market (and laptops, ultrabooks, etc.). And if you can accommodate a full-sized gpu, then there's no reason to get the APU unless you just want to have one less component to deal with. And if you really want to have the APU (agreed, that wouldn't be the best cost:performance option), you can get the APU and then a compatible discrete GPU to crossfire and drastically improve your performance. They completely failed to mention that. I mean, that's not the direction I would go, but it's the easiest way to net more performance for a relatively small cost and still only have one discrete graphics card. They completely missed that point when they said this at the end:
Quote:
But that's where the A8-3870K loses some of its appeal. As we already established, if you're using a Socket FM1-based motherboard and an A8-3870K, your only upgrade would be to a faster add-in graphics card. In that scenario, the APU basically becomes a $140 Athlon II X4.
Since gaming performance is way more dependent on GPU power, and that the point of this study was to test the gaming performance, they completely ignore the first place to improve gaming performance, by using a better graphics card. Even for being a $140 Athlon II X4, you can still get sufficient CPU performance to push pretty much any graphics card at 1080p. It's a very poor understanding of the situation, and doesn't present the info to anyone who would actually benefit from it.

And I'm not bashing Tom's in the way that most people do, without reading or comprehending what they wrote. This was a poor write-up and analysis, devoid of a lot of rationalizations other than Performance: CPU + GPU > APU and Cost: APU > CPU + GPU
    
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post #20 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

wth... they left the RAM at 1600MHz... throw some 2133 on that Llano system and it will most likely outperform the G620 + 6670
A++++++++ BAIT WOULD FALL FOR AGAIN
Yeah and they use crap RAM when the IGP's main bottleneck is memory bandwidth. Definitely biased towards AMD rolleyes.gif
Overclocking the 6670 results in roughly 15% more performance (sources: TweakTown and Tom's) whereas boosting the RAM by 533MHz in a Llano system has been proven to increase performance by 20-25% (source: Anandtech). 6% more performance from Llano and you have higher minimum frame rates than the G620 + 6670.
Also as someone else already mentioned for $150 you can get an A6-3650 (can't find the 3600 in stock anywhere) with a 6570 which should be a LOT faster than an A8 by itself.

Not that I'm defending the review, but 2133MHz RAM would bring the system to a completely different price point. I don't see the logic in pairing such pricey RAM with an APU. I also recall seeing a review that shows even for an overclocked Llano chip, the benefits of anything over 1600MHz were only slight.
     
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