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post #21 of 42

The rheosmart is all you need.   I'm not sure which board you're using but all the boards I've used have RPM software included.  No reason to see the RPM numbers unless you like to see numbers on your bay...adjust it so that it runs cool enough to meet your expectations while keeping the fans at the lowest RPM possible to keep noise down to a minimum. 

 

Allowing the board to sense RPM signals so that if you loose a fan, the bios/software will let you know you've lost RPM signal.  In some configurations if it senses too low of an RPM, you can set it to either shut the computer down or just give you a warning.


Edited by betatester1 - 2/29/12 at 10:29pm
post #22 of 42
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Please some one answer the actual question! please?
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post #23 of 42

I thought we did?  I commented to you regarding PWM faults (being modulation pulse noise).  Were you looking for advice regarding which rad or which fans to use too?  To me it sounded like you chose the parts already which is why I didn't really comment on them.  Some of the fans in my case are XLF series Xigmatek fans which can be controlled via PWM (though mine are controlled via voltage).  They are very nice fans, with good flow/pressure numbers and are very durable due to the design  They are also very quiet.  The fan controller are you have is the best plan of attack though. 

 

You don't have to use the same fans as I use, there are others much less expensive.  Sleeved fans are inexpensive but they tend to get noisy fast as the sleeves wear.

post #24 of 42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betatester1 View Post

I thought we did?  I commented to you regarding PWM faults (being modulation pulse noise).  Were you looking for advice regarding which rad or which fans to use too?  To me it sounded like you chose the parts already which is why I didn't really comment on them.  Some of the fans in my case are XLF series Xigmatek fans which can be controlled via PWM (though mine are controlled via voltage).  They are very nice fans, with good flow/pressure numbers and are very durable due to the design  They are also very quiet.  The fan controller are you have is the best plan of attack though. 

You don't have to use the same fans as I use, there are others much less expensive.  Sleeved fans are inexpensive but they tend to get noisy fast as the sleeves wear.

Wasn't looking for a fan or rad recomendation, Just wanted to know if PWM was worth it or not in a water cooled situation regaurdless of fan's, radiator's or how the system is set up, just wanted to know if PWM worth the extra hassle over set and forget system. I know in my air cooled system's I can't live with out PWM. Sorry If I sounded testy. Rep has been handed out.
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post #25 of 42

You didn't sound "testy" to me.  I was just sort of confused as to what else you were asking. 

 

It sounds like your sort of confused as to how PWM can be used.  If you don't run the controller, you will have to run a PWM fan if you want PWM control from the motherboard.  That has it's downfalls though as this setup tends to have typically a noticeable noise (whine) associated with it.  I personally would not use a PWM fan with a PWM circuit as that whine pitch drives me crazy.

 

By using your fan controller which adjusts voltage based on PWM signal you avoid the inherent noise normally associated with PWM fan controlling.  The benefit with your controller is you still use the PWM motherboard signal control but that signal is related to voltage adjustments instead.  It still ends up being "set it and forget it".

 

It doesn't matter if the fan you choose or not has the PWM function or not.  The controller you have will adjust the speed of each fan via voltage.  The voltage will vary with the the PWM signal it receives.

 

If you're curious, the 140mm fans I mentioned are really great fans.  At full speed though, they are noisy.  I'm not sure how they calculated <19 decibels.  They must be testing it from 10 feet away...lol.  The noise that you hear is wind noise, nothing else.  There's no bearing noise, clicking etc.  They never run up to full speed.  They are dead quiet at low RPM's and still have good pressure/flow.  I've have Noctua fans in my other computer.  I prefer these over them.  If looks matter (which I really don't care about), they beat the Noctua's in that category.  Some like the gentle typhoons and swear by them.  I have never used them but if you run them at full speed, 34 decibels or so to me is way too loud for my tastes...running multiple ones would be even worse.  The fan controller is your best friend.


Edited by betatester1 - 3/1/12 at 12:33am
post #26 of 42
I think only you can answer the "is it worth it" question.

I like to manually control my fans based on the scenario I'm going to be using my computer in. So for me, it would not be worth it to set up an automatic PWM control system.

If you want a system where you don't want to think about it, and you're willing to put the time upfront to get it set up properly, then it would be worth it to you.

Fans will not cost you extra because you have the Rheosmart6. As said, the Rheosmart6 reads the incoming PWM signal, and automatically adjusts the voltage of each of the channels set to be controlled by the PWM. You can use any fan with the Rheosmart6.
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post #27 of 42
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Have any of you guy's used PWM fans to cool a radiator in a custom water loop?

EDIT: I still dont think my question is fully being understood. I'll work out how to better elaborate what I am asking and post back.
Edited by KhaoticKomputing - 3/1/12 at 1:21am
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post #28 of 42
Are you trying to ask if there's any difference in cooling between manually controlling your fans, and using the PWM method?

I think PWM would be slower to ramp up the fan speeds, but once it's at max, it won't be any different. So basically, you will have less cooling capacity initially, but once it hits the temp limit, then it will be the same.
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post #29 of 42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

Are you trying to ask if there's any difference in cooling between manually controlling your fans, and using the PWM method?
I think PWM would be slower to ramp up the fan speeds, but once it's at max, it won't be any different. So basically, you will have less cooling capacity initially, but once it hits the temp limit, then it will be the same.

Kind of close....I know what I want to ask but the word's won't come lol.
Thought it would be simple lol:) thank you for trying. I understand what you mean.

I'm not worried how long it will take the fans to respond to the signal, more how long it will take the water to respond to the added airflow across the radiator's.

I'm going to pull these numbers out of my @$$ just for shiggle's.

We have a hypothetical loop with imaginary fans, radiators and blocks so take these numbers with a massive pile of salt smile.gif

Lets say our room is 25c ambient temp and our hypothetical loop is running non pwm fans at 1500 RPM. Lets say our CPU Idles at 5c above room temp( 30c) and the water in said loop equalize's at 27c when at idle.
Now lets say when we add load to the CPU that the temp jump's to 60c(35 delta over ambient) the water in the loop will have to equalize to a new temp before the CPU temps even out.

Its that equalization that is throwing me for a loop with the PWM fans. if we changed to PWM fans common sense would tell us that the water in the loop will have a higher delta, and the CPU will be a little warmer but its idle temps who care's. I want to know if the fact that the water loop has to equalize will add a wonky affect to PWM fans.

With my Air cooler the fans are set up in a PWM config and they ramp up as CPU heat sup(i know...duh! lol) however with air cooling the added airflow from the PWM fans is almost instant, with in a second the temps react to the fan speed being changed.

I know that with my friends CLC(H50) and uber high speed fans(ap-31's) if we turn the fans down low and turn on prime and let is sit for about 5-10 min the temps get nice and warm. if we crank the AP-31's on it to full power it take's a good 2-3 min for the temps to stop jumping and even out. 2-3 min on a CLC! A custom loop will have at least twice the water or more, how long will it take for the temps to equalize in an average loop? 5-6min? longer? will the fact that the larger radiator's over the CLC play a part in the loop temps equalizing faster? or will it sill take a long while? if so that would destroy the reason for using PWM, as while surfing the net or doing minor tasking the CPU wont be under load long enough for the small spike's in fan speed via PWM to actually affect the loop temps. Meaning the fans ramp up and down and do all kinds of spiffy things but the temps don't actually change... Sorry for the very long post lol. But that should narrow down. sorry I have no idea why the English language is failing me right now lol Thank you so much for you patience! rep has been handed out.
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post #30 of 42
first to answer your "what is pwm?" question. PWM is "Pulse Width Modulation" what it means is that rather than using ways to adjust the actual voltage delivered to the fan a digital signal is used. The digital signal consists of 1 and 0 or (high or low). The speed of the fan is controlled by adjusting how long the "on or high" signal is sent. When the high signal is sent a full 12v is sent to the fan. and yes for it to work optimally the fan does need to be a pwm fan because some fan motors simply do not react to the constant On/Off modulation well and as such may exhibit odd noises such as whines clicks etc.

as far as your question of "is it worth it?" Thats a subjective question therefor it can be only decided by you. That being said there are certainly things to consider. such as pwm is a nice convenient way to NOT have to reach over and manually switch fans as the load/temps increase. Yes there may be a bit higher investment in the components necessary to achieve pwm fan cooling however these may be offset by the decrease in power usage. Remember the PWM description, on/off signal manipulation can save power as well. pwm curves can be adjusted with different softwares as well allowing you to customize the pwm modulation to meet your own needs.

as far as how will the water loop react to temp spikes and things like that. with a water-loop temperature is transferred from the die of the cpu to water in exactly the same fashion as temperature travels up a metal spoon that you would use to stir a boiling pot of water. This transfer is governed by laws of thermodynamics. the only difference being that you are using a different medium to transfer the heat from the cpu to the air. the more water volume and flow and cooling capacity you have means the slower that the temperature of your heatsink changes. Water will soak alot more energy before changing temperature than air will,the temperature change curves with water will be smoother curves than the temp curves on air cooling.
Edited by onestack - 3/1/12 at 3:10am
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