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post #11 of 54
here is a couple of good links to follow linus distros
http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major
http://distrowatch.com/
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post #12 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyd mcclendon View Post

yeah seriously people need to stop recommending ubuntu like this ... fedora / mint are 100x more stable than ubuntu, which is garbage

Mint is a great operating system, no doubt, however it is based off of Ubuntu so I don't see how 'it's a 100x more stable than Ubuntu, which is garbage.' Since they are basically the same, I don't understand your statement. What's so unstable about Ubuntu? I've used both since version 9 and had few issues with both of them. Certainly Ubuntu did not have a vast amount of issues to make it garbage, which is why it is one of the most popular Linux out there.

One thing people need to realize is until you compile a kernel for your system, there will be problems occassionally. All versions of Linux come with a pre configured 'generic' kernel, which may or may not, have what you need to run by default. I would definitely start with a Linux that contains a kernel version of 3.0.0+ since there's a lot of optimizations in them for the latest hardware.

Ubuntu/Fedora/Mint/Suse/whatever is a great place to start and learn the system but don't install it and live with it. Try different Linux and find one you like. Maybe do some Youtube/Google searches to get a feel for the different desktops, there's a lot to choose from.
Edited by tout - 3/4/12 at 10:05pm
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post #13 of 54
Install debian with a very basic install. Build your gui up from scratch and learn linux that way. I did this and have a good grasp at linux overall within one weeks time. This will also teach you a strong grasp of package management and the "everything is a file" aspect of linux.

I suggest debian because out of all linux distributions it is one of the most documented ones. Linux community suffers from a lack of documentation and that is not really true with debian. If there is a task you want to have done then debian has a package or method for you. I also suggest a base debian install, not a debian spawn(ubuntu, mint, etc), because debian is a base system. Most distributions of the linux users I know use are a debian spawn.

Debian is also very stable and supports the largest set of hardware out of all linux distributions. The last thing you want is to work on an OS that might have errors or crashes not due to your learning curve. Best to use one that is very reliable so any screw ups are yours to make and yours to fix smile.gif.
Edited by Sarec - 3/4/12 at 10:10pm
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post #14 of 54
I would agree with you, sarec, because I wanted to do the same thing...

However the last time I tried the latest Debian, version 6, the installer wouldn't even run correctly for me. I had many errors and had to abort the install. The OP has a new system (like I do) and more than likely, he will have similar issues. I think Debian doesn't update their kernel as often as Ubuntu or Mint. With no network support and Debian not having a new kernel it had no idea what to do with my PC.

As far as there being more documentation on Debian - that's false because pretty much everything you do on Ubuntu or Mint is the same you would do on Debian. They are, after all, based off the Debian system. Using terminal in Ubuntu is the same as using it in Debian when the proper packages are installed.

While your suggestion has it's merits. I think it may well be a waste of time for the OP.
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post #15 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by tout View Post

I would agree with you, sarec, because I wanted to do the same thing...
However the last time I tried the latest Debian, version 6, the installer wouldn't even run correctly for me. I had many errors and had to abort the install. The OP has a new system (like I do) and more than likely, he will have similar issues. I think Debian doesn't update their kernel as often as Ubuntu or Mint. With no network support and Debian not having a new kernel it had no idea what to do with my PC.
As far as there being more documentation on Debian - that's false because pretty much everything you do on Ubuntu or Mint is the same you would do on Debian. They are, after all, based off the Debian system. Using terminal in Ubuntu is the same as using it in Debian when the proper packages are installed.
While your suggestion has it's merits. I think it may well be a waste of time for the OP.

Originally being based off doesn't mean it's the same as (eg SuSE was based of Slackware yet they couldn't be more different now). One immediate difference that springs to mind is that Debian has a different approach to sudoers than Ubuntu. (for the record, I think Ubuntu's default user / password / sudoers config is broken by design - but each to their own).
post #16 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

Originally being based off doesn't mean it's the same as (eg SuSE was based of Slackware yet they couldn't be more different now). One immediate difference that springs to mind is that Debian has a different approach to sudoers than Ubuntu. (for the record, I think Ubuntu's default user / password / sudoers config is broken by design - but each to their own).

True enough.

openSUSE no longer claims to be a derivitive of Slackware, it is an independant OS at this point.

Out of curiosity, what about Ubuntu's sudo system do you find broken? I am still learning Linux but feel that Ubuntu's setup to be perfectly usable.
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post #17 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by tout View Post

True enough.
openSUSE no longer claims to be a derivitive of Slackware, it is an independant OS at this point.
Out of curiosity, what about Ubuntu's sudo system do you find broken? I am still learning Linux but feel that Ubuntu's setup to be perfectly usable.

It allows regular users to elevate their permissions using their user password. While I can see the logic of doing this for dumb users, it is less secure for servers as hackers only need one set of passwords rather than two.
post #18 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

It allows regular users to elevate their permissions using their user password. While I can see the logic of doing this for dumb users, it is less secure for servers as hackers only need one set of passwords rather than two.

I understand now. I wouldn't use Ubuntu for a server, there are better OS' for this purpose. Ubuntu is for a desktop user type of system.

*Edit

If you wanted to make a root account with it's own password in Ubuntu do this in terminal...

sudo passwd

it will ask you for your current password, then you can enter a new password for UNIX (root)

Logout and log in as root with your new password and change your user's permissions. Now you have access to root and have removed your user's ability to act as root.
Edited by tout - 3/5/12 at 1:54am
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post #19 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by tout View Post

I understand now. I wouldn't use Ubuntu for a server, there are better OS' for this purpose. Ubuntu is for a desktop user type of system.
*Edit
If you wanted to make a root account with it's own password in Ubuntu do this in terminal...
sudo passwd
it will ask you for your current password, then you can enter a new password for UNIX (root)
Logout and log in as root with your new password and change your user's permissions. Now you have access to root and have removed your user's ability to act as root.

I know how it's done (I'm a Linux and Unix systems administrator by trade), my point is the defaults are wrong.
Also, plenty of people use Ubuntu as a server - Canonical even have a specific Server build (imaginatively named 'Ubuntu Server'). Sadly even the server-focused variant uses the same defaults.
post #20 of 54
Okay then but I'm sure anyone who would want to use Ubuntu as a server would figure this out and change the settings in a matter of minutes while configuring their server. I know almost nothing about Linux and I found this info in Google in a matter of seconds and did it in a few minutes.

I can see your point but I don't feel that it is 'broken' by design but rather designed to be an ease of use feature. The fix is readily available and very easy if you feel the need for better security. I consider it a positive rather than a negative because I am not running a high security server but rather a simple gaming/surfing/experimentation desktop.

I could consider any version of Linux 'broken' or 'incomplete' by design if it doesn't have gcc (along with libncurses5-dev) installed by default since I will need it to compile a new kernel. However it is easily remedied so it's a non issue for me. It's expected that will you want and need to configure your version of Linux to suit your liking.

I apologize if I am being argumentive, you obviously have far more knowledge than me on the subject of Linux but I do disagree with your views on the matter. I don't feel they are wrong by implementing sudo the way they do.
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