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Going old skool with a socket 775 set-up... - Page 3

post #21 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyoketsu View Post

Regarding the CPU: I'd advise against the Q6600 if you don't play the latest-and-greatest resource-hogging games.
I exchanged my Q6600 for an E8400 just the other day(they are about the same when it comes to price).
I found that most of the games/programs I use don't utilize more than 2 cores, so a Q6600 that didn't clock past 3.0GHz was a constant annoyance. The E8400 starts out 3.0 at STOCK, so it will clock higher, not to mention run a LOT cooler and draw approx. half the power due to being on the 45nm process. Oh, it also has a faster FSB and more modern instructions.
I have mine at 4.14GHz atm, will try to push for 4.5GHz later. I can tell you, when it comes to single/dual threaded apps, my current configuration annihilates the previous one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnykiv View Post

Is the E8400 really that good? Can I ask what people have played using the E8400 and how it has performed.

I have computers with both setups. With decent cooling (H70, H80, D12 or D14) you can overclock a Q6600 to 3.2 - 3.6ghz. Currently I have mine at 3.6ghz with a H80.

If your going to be playing modern games like BF3 or BC2 then your going to want the extra cores. It's a little bit of a trade off as the E8400 will clock higher and do better on older games and less demanding games. Personally I would take the Q6600 over the E8400 but it would depend on the price as overpaying for the Q6600 just isn't worth it for a dead platform.

The other option is going AMD, you should be able to build a pretty decent Phenom 2 Quad + 4-8gb DDR3 rig for fairly cheap if you already have a case, psu and hard drive. It's hard to recommend anyone invest in a 775 system considering its completely dead at this point. Keep my sig rig in mind here.
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post #22 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyoketsu View Post

Elaborate on what you mean by "easily". We have already established that faster duals beat slower quads in the majority of games today.

Of course.

It can do everything that the E8400 can with nearly identical performance, and it can do everything the E8400 can't. The x3220 is just a G0 with a low VID. Clock speed on the conroes, kents and wolfs were essentially arbitrary numbers. Bus speed, cache and threads are what you should be looking at. And since you are overclocking, buying the E8400 would be paying the same price to have half the CPU.

I am someone who, before buying my current system, upgraded my E8400 to a q6600 because I couldn't record with fraps at 1080p. I bought the E8400 in the first place because I couldn't afford the Q6600.

His argument is that the PC will be "strictly gaming" which would be an okay reason to save money on a CPU that meets his needs. But in this case, they are the same price.
Edited by S.M. - 3/5/12 at 11:35am
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post #23 of 75
I must be imagining the massive FPS increase I got when going from a 3.0GHz Q6600 (admittedly, a poor clocker) to an E8400@ 4.14GHz then, huh rolleyes.gif
Quote:
And since you are overclocking, buying the E8400 would be paying the same price to have half the CPU.
The quads don't clock as high as the duos. Since I doubt OP's going to invest into a high-end air/water cooling solution, I expect the end OC result to be anywhere between 600-1000+MHz apart. That means a LOT, and I'm talking firsthand experience here. Clockspeed = arbitrary numbers? How did you arrive at THAT conclusion? confused.gif
Also, bus speed-wise, the dual beats the quad as well. 1333MHz vs 1066MHz.

Talking about cooling, let's compare the temps of these CPUs with the cheapo Hyper 212+. I'm talking maximum IntelBurnTest stress here. The q6600, at the voltage of 1.325v peaked out at ~93C(EDIT:90C, see post #28). Ouch. The E8400 @ 1.4v? 63C (the TIM was/is MX-2 in both cases). The OP wouldn't need to invest in a top-end cooler to achieve good OC results on a duo. The quad? Fork out the dough.

Sure, you needed fraps, fair enough. But is that enough of a reason to forsake the overall gaming experience in OPs case? E8400 is FAR from being half the CPU. Check out the Anand benches if you find my personal experience to be of questionable accuracy:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/53?vs=56
Now boost the E8400 performance even further due to it being very likely to widen the clockspeed distance after both CPUs are OCed.
Unless the games OP plays are heavily threaded (admittedly, I don't know how much resources the COD games he mentioned utilize), the E8400 is a much better deal than the Q6600 even today.

If he has the budget, though, he could make a compromise and get a high-end quad(e.g. a Q9550), thus making this debate moot.
For me personally, however, their price is too close to the SB i5-2500k to make me even remotely consider buying one.
Edited by Hyoketsu - 3/6/12 at 2:13am
     
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post #24 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyoketsu View Post

I must be imagining the massive FPS increase I got when going from a 3.0GHz Q6600 (admittedly, a poor clocker) to an E8400@ 4.14GHz then, huh rolleyes.gif

The x3220 is a well binned G0 with a low vid. Where did you read that G0's are poor clockers? They were all the rage here just a few years ago for their crazy clocks. You just didn't read my post. By overclocking you increased your bus speed considerably improving your game performance.
Quote:
And since you are overclocking, buying the E8400 would be paying the same price to have half the CPU.
The quads don't clock as high as the duos. Since I doubt OP's going to invest into a high-end air/water cooling solution, I expect the end OC result to be anywhere between 600-1000+MHz apart. That means a LOT, and I'm talking firsthand experience here. Clockspeed = arbitrary numbers? How did you arrive at THAT conclusion? confused.gif

You're just repeating something you have read, my G0 outclocked my E8400. Also, again, you didn't read my post.

Also, bus speed-wise, the dual beats the quad as well. 1333MHz vs 1066MHz.

Those for are the stock FSB ratings. 266 vs 333, both are capable of being overclocked to near the same speeds.

Talking about cooling, let's compare the temps of these CPUs with the cheapo Hyper 212+. I'm talking maximum IntelBurnTest stress here. The q6600, at the voltage of 1.325v peaked out at ~93C. Ouch. The E8400 @ 1.4v? 63C (the TIM was/is MX-2 in both cases). The OP wouldn't need to invest in a top-end cooler to achieve good OC results on a duo. The quad? Fork out the dough.

Cute made up numbers. I ran a cheap Xigmatek Gaia (which I am still using) for both CPU's and neither went above 55c (what I set coretemp warnings to) with an ambient of 28c.

Sure, you needed fraps, fair enough. But is that enough of a reason to forsake the overall gaming experience in OPs case? E8400 is FAR from being half the CPU. Check out the Anand benches if you find my personal experience to be of questionable accuracy:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/53?vs=56
Now boost the E8400 performance even further due to it being very likely to widen the clockspeed distance after both CPUs are OCed.
Unless the games OP plays are heavily threaded (admittedly, I don't know how much resources the COD games he mentioned utilize), the E8400 is a much better deal than the Q6600 even today.
If he has the budget, though, he could make a compromise and get a high-end quad(e.g. a Q9550), thus making this debate moot.
For me personally, however, their price is too close to the SB i5-2500k to make me even remotely consider buying one.

In all honesty, he could set the bus speed to 333 on the X3220 and lower the multiplier to 8 (for 2.6Ghz) and the two CPU's would perform identical on the single threaded applications, regardless of clock difference. The notion that the E8400 will magically clock higher is also not very solid. My G0 reached 3.8Ghz while my E8400 struggled with 3.6Ghz. Regardless, with both CPU's they performed best with 400x8 (3.2Ghz)

Edited by S.M. - 3/5/12 at 5:44pm
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post #25 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnykiv View Post

Yes it will be strictly for gaming.
On another note does anyone know what program will be able to read the temps of a Pentium D 820 2.80Ghz?? I can't find any.

I used Speedfan for my Pentium D820. That was a fun CPU to OC.. You can Download Speed fan here: http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php
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post #26 of 75
Of course, no CPU is a sure deal when overclocking. I didn't claim that all quads are low clockers, I was talking about my OWN quad - I realize it clocked lower than average. Fair enough, it was a B3, yet my colleague at work got a G0 a week ago, and has only managed to get 3.2 stable so far (last time I spoke to him he said he's trying to stabilize it at ~3.3-3.4). That's the regular result for quads. It was YOU who didn't read my post.
Even if I only have a single E8400 and two Q6600 backing up my claims, how is it that you find my statements less credible than yours? Why so eager on the "made up numbers"/"you just read it somewhere" theory? I too can easily dismiss your claims as being bogus.

Talking about something I have read? Half-correct. I have read about it. I have also witnessed it. If you doubt I even had the quad, see my trader rating; I bought it off someone on OCN. I have probably mentioned the crazy temps in one of my earlier posts as well. Have a lot of free time on your hands? Search my older posts; most likely the ones in the P5Q Pro Turbo owners thread. Right now I am sincerely regretting not making a few screenshots of HWMonitor when I still had the quad. Still, I find you trying to completely disregard the temp factor weird - the Q6600 is on 65nm, has 4 cores and, consequently, a TDP of 105W, while the E8400 is a 45nm dual core, which results in a TDP of a measly 65W. It's a given that a very noticeable temp difference will exist. Furthermore, you claim you reached 3.8GHz with your quad on a cooler that is pretty much on par with mine. May I inquire about the required voltage?
OH! You know what? I'll do it your style: Cute made up numbers, mate! wink.gif

See what happens? No one benefits from such statements. Now, getting back to the clockspeed, it seems we have had a completely different experience with our CPUs. My quad didn't clock well at all, while my duo is quite decent. Your case? The complete opposite.
If you see such conflicting opinions, what do you do? See what a third party has to say.
I see you completely disregarded the Anand benches and are unwilling to accept the information someone has read somewhere. Truth of the matter is, if you do even a little bit of research, you'll see that a consensus had been reached even back when the E8400 first launched - when it comes to single/dual threaded performance, the E8400 is the clear winner; in the majority of cases it will clock better as well. If you utilize all four cores - sure, go ahead, get the quad. As he told me, the guy that exchanged his E8400 for my quad did so for the sole sake of BF3.

We both have personal experience backing our claims.
My claims are also backed up by pretty much every other E8400 vs Q6600 discussion.
Your claims?
If you have benches proving the quad to be the winner/have matching performance at single/dual threaded apps while being at same/lower clockspeed, please, by all means, don't hesitate to shove them in my face. So far, my claims remain as follows:

Q6600 Pros:
4 cores - better performance when all resources are utilized.
8MB of L2 cache vs 6MB in the duo.
A resilient chip; many speak about the high voltages these chips can endure.

E8400 Pros:
Higher clocks; in the majority of cases - a better clocker.
Less power & heat due to being on the 45nm process.
Better single/dual threaded performance.
SSE4.1 instruction set vs SSE3 on the quad. ( I don't really know how those instruction sets work, but where I'm sure the more recent ones DO help, even if marginally, is the PCSX2 emulator. Relevant to me, personally.)

Again, Anand benches for some reference: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/53?vs=56

The floor is yours wink.gif
Edited by Hyoketsu - 3/6/12 at 2:46am
     
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post #27 of 75
Hi Hyoketsu!

May I wreak some chaos and havok on this thread ? lol

I think I'm qualified to speak on this matter since I can relate to it very well. In the summer of 2008 I had a hard time deciding between getting an E8400 or a Q6600, they were selling new for around the same price. At the time I wasn't an overclocker and I ended up deciding to buy the E8400 for several reasons: it's built using 45nm tech, runs cooler, uses less power both at idle and at load (saves money on the electricity bill), it's stock speed is higher, the FSB is higher, the L2 cache size per pair of cores is higher, and perhaps all games at the time still didn't benefit from quad core CPUs. So, as much as the Q6600 was an excellent chip for the money, you had to have the right applications to take advantage of it, or else you had to overclock it to get the same performance as in dual core optimized applications and games.

Now here is the problem: fast forward to November / December of 2010: my E8400 was behaving very well with my factory overclocked 8800GT, but then I bought a GTX 460 1 GB and decided to play Metro 2033. .... And then I decided I needed a quad core lolol.

And that is when I decided to buy the Q9550 that I'm using today. And the results, even at stock, were amazing. I figured it would last me another two years, and after a year and 3 months, I'm still using it and it performs very well with my GTX 480.

At this point in time it really depends on what your priorities are:

1. If the PC is just for some casual gaming from time to time when your friends come over, and you can manage the heat and power consumption, then overclocking the Q6600 is the best option;

2. If you are going to play older games or games that benefit more from a fast dual Core, then the E8400 is the best option;

3. If however, you want the best of both worlds, try to get a used Q9400. It doesn't have as much cache as the Q9X50 series, but it's made using 45nm tech and overclocks much better than the Q6600. You can also try buying a used Q9450 if the price is right.
Edited by tpi2007 - 3/5/12 at 11:57pm
 
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post #28 of 75
Hey, thanks for the input, tpi smile.gif Indeed, a high-end quad would get OP the benefits from both sides. It all depends on his budget.

EDIT:
A few slight corrections regarding the temperatures. After going through my desk, I found some old memos with my CPU voltages, temp readings, and some bios settings.
When I first got the Q6600, I was still using the Scythe Katana 3 cooler. Note says: "1.325v - 97/97/92/93".
Second note, Hyper 212+: "1.325v - 90/90/86/86", "1.35v - 93/93/89/88", "1.4v - 100+/100+/98/97"
The "100+" means I was unsure of the precise temp, but it can be guessed to be 101-102C from the 3rd/4th core readings. When they got past 100C, the thermal readings would give out and start showing negative temps.

Those are IntelBurnTest maximum stress temps of each core, measured using HWMonitor.

If memory serves, during my ownership of the Q6600, both the Katana 3 and the Hyper 212+ were reseated once. I found the temps to be rather high as well, but even after making completely sure the thermal paste was applied properly, and the coolers were firmly seated in place, the readings didn't change.
Call BS if you will, but those are the readings I observed, and that's what I'm basing my temp-related statements on.
Edited by Hyoketsu - 3/6/12 at 2:25am
     
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post #29 of 75
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Hey people, I received my X3220 today (10:15am GMT) and I have installed it and ran prime95 to stress it to see how my current stock cooler does. It seems that all the temps top out at 66c MAX on stock settings. Going to be getting an aftermarket cooler too and some more thermal paste(currently sporting MX-4). I am also going to be running a CineBench CPU test to see how it fairs up against my older dual cores, just for kicks.

I also have an E8400 arriving very soon too, so I can test both out (got both for £50 each). Then I will have some first hand knowledge of how they perform on a crappy motheboard. As soon as my GA-EP45-UD3P arrives I can then really start to test them.

Celeron E1400 (2x2Ghz) - 0.85
Pentium D 820 (2x2.8Ghz) - 0.73
X3220 (4x2.4Ghz) - 2.61
E8400 (2x3Ghz) - Coming soon!

EDIT: The Xeon surprised me, didn't think it would perform all that much better than the previous 2 CPUs.
Edited by Jonnykiv - 3/6/12 at 2:54am
    
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post #30 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnykiv View Post

Hey people, I received my X3220 today (10:15am GMT) and I have installed it and ran prime95 to stress it to see how my current stock cooler does. It seems that all the temps top out at 66c MAX on stock settings. Going to be getting an aftermarket cooler too and some more thermal paste(currently sporting MX-4). I am also going to be running a CineBench CPU test to see how it fairs up against my older dual cores, just for kicks.

I also have an E8400 arriving very soon too, so I can test both out (got both for £50 each). Then I will have some first hand knowledge of how they perform on a crappy motheboard. As soon as my GA-EP45-UD3P arrives I can then really start to test them.

Celeron E1400 (2x2Ghz) - 0.85
Pentium D 820 (2x2.8Ghz) - 0.73
X3220 (4x2.4Ghz) - 2.61
E8400 (2x3Ghz) - Coming soon!

EDIT: The Xeon surprised me, didn't think it would perform all that much better than the previous 2 CPUs.

That X3220 should do some AMAZING things on that EP45 board. wink.gif The Xeon X3220 is basically just a golden Q6600. TYPICAL Q6600's didn't overclock very far, that's correct. A bad VID chip will do 3.2-3.4GHz or so. With a good VID chip (1.25v or less), you're looking at 3.6-4.0GHz depending on cooling.

So yes, the Q6600 is still going to do as good or better than the Wolfdate, just because its got a few more cores......considering we're talking the X3220, not the actual Q6600.

I've got a Q6600 sitting here in my HTPC that's 1.165v VID, that has done 4.2GHz stable on air on a P35 BloodIron. So don't EVEN try to tell me that the Q6600 is a worse option. tongue.gif It just depends on how lucky of a chip you've got (in this case, the Xeon X3220).
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Junkyard
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NZXT 120mm fans strapped to stock 7970 cooler Windows 10 Pro Dell 3007WFP Dell 2007FP 
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