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[PhysOrg] Spider Silk Conducts Heat Better Than Copper - Page 2

post #11 of 32
I wonder how much that 15 watts per meter kelvin will matter. If it's not worth the extra price they probably won't do much with it.
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post #12 of 32
I wonder how much a spider-silk pajama set would cost? O_o
post #13 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by b3machi7ke View Post

I think it's more of an "i don't want to live next to a farm that has billions of spiders living there", can you imagine if they "broke out"?? eek.gif According to the article, they already know the why behind the conductivity, it's more of a matter of how can it be recreated on a large-scale.

So here is the money paragraph from the paper:
Quote:
The observed exceptionally high thermal conductivity of
spider silk is largely attributed to its extraordinary structures,
which are also responsible for its fantastic mechanical properties.
At fi rst, all naturally produced biomolecules, including
proteins, are well-organized and less-defect structures associated
with functionality formed by strong self-assembly. [ 18 ]
Defect is a main source to reduce the strength and thermal
conductivity in crystalline materials. The nanofi bril (100 nm
scale in diameter [ 19 ] ) in N. clavipes silk fi ber as shown in the
skin-core structures (Figure 1 c), composed of two large repetitive
proteins fl anked by highly conserved non-repetitive aminoterminus
(N-terminus) and carboxy-terminal (C-terminus) [ 11 ]
(Figure 1 d), have little defects. An unclear secretion signal is
between N-terminus and repetitive proteins. More specifi cally,
the proteins contain highly oriented alanine-rich nanocrystals
of β -pleated sheets along the fi ber axis embedded in a glycinerich
matrix of random polypeptide chains [ 19 , 20 ] and moderately
oriented helical structures [ 21 ] (Figure 1 e). Although there is

a debate on the glycine-rich matrix (amorphous
[ 19 , 20 ] or strongly oriented [ 21 ] ), the crystalline
β -pleated sheets made up of several
antiparallel peptide chains (Figure 1 f) should
contribute much for effi cient heat conduction
like the theoretical prediction for single
hydrocarbon chains [ 6 ] , polyethylene chains, [ 7 ]
and general oriented polymer fi bers. [ 22 ] With
their small fraction ( ∼ 10%) in a spider silk,
β -sheet crystals are expected to be able to
have a much higher k than that of the hierarchically
assembled silk according to the
effective medium approximation. The high
k results convinced us to believe the glycinerich
matrix has ordered structure that favors
phonon energy transport. More importantly,
we learned from the natural variability that
the assembly pattern of nanostructures in
biomaterials (at least silks) matters most for
their macroscopic properties, no matter how
similar the chemical composition and microscopic
structures are (from spider to spider,
or from spider to silkworm), not to mention
the macrostructures (from spider silk
to human hair). This is also true in carbon
nanotube (CNT) applications (high k for individual
CNT, low k for CNT bundles [ 15 ] ).

Source

So it seems that the protein structure that causes the high k is well understood, I wonder if VJ Panda will start predicting the folding pattern of a super long amino acid that is similar to this... Could be big money! I see a huge benefit if it gets cheap to produce this stuff, I mean sugar and nitrogen are a bunch cheaper than copper...We just need a genetically engineered bacterium that grows it on components after they get out of the foundry!
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post #14 of 32
Less than 4% better than copper. Yippee???
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post #15 of 32
Time to start up a spider farm so I can sell mass quantities of spider silk to these companies bulb.gif
post #16 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyparker1337 View Post

I wonder how much a spider-silk pajama set would cost? O_o

This article describes some of the problems with using spiders to mass produce the silk. They like to chomp each other's heads off apparently:
Quote:
Unfortunately, spider silk is extremely hard to mass produce: Unlike silk worms, which are easy to raise in captivity, spiders have a habit of chomping off each other’s heads when housed together.

There are also problems with mass producing the silk in another organism:
Quote:
Part of the reason it’s so hard to generate spider silk in the lab is that it starts out as a liquid protein that’s produced by a special gland in the spider’s abdomen. Using their spinnerets, spiders apply a physical force to rearrange the protein’s molecular structure and turn it into solid silk.

“When we talk about a spider spinning silk, we’re talking about how the spider applies forces to produce a physical transformation from liquid to solid,” said spider silk expert Todd Blackledge of the University of Akron, who was not involved in creating the textile. “Scientists simply can’t replicate that as well as a spider does it. Every year we’re getting closer and closer to being able to mass-produce it, but we’re not there yet.”

Source
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post #17 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by corky dorkelson View Post

Less than 4% better than copper. Yippee???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghooble View Post

I wonder how much that 15 watts per meter kelvin will matter. If it's not worth the extra price they probably won't do much with it.

Except its also flexible, not electrically conductive (to the best of my knowledge) and significantly lighter weight. all without using any expensive, non-renewable semi-precious metals.

People currently use different materials on heat-sinks or TIMs to get that slight heat dissipation advantage even if it only amounts to a 1 degree difference and costs 3 times as much and has none of the other advantages that silk would offer.

Looks good to me.
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post #18 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmdehaan View Post

So here is the money paragraph from the paper:
Quote:
-snip-.
Source
So it seems that the protein structure that causes the high k is well understood, I wonder if VJ Panda will start predicting the folding pattern of a super long amino acid that is similar to this... Could be big money! I see a huge benefit if it gets cheap to produce this stuff, I mean sugar and nitrogen are a bunch cheaper than copper...We just need a genetically engineered bacterium that grows it on components after they get out of the foundry!

right, I think a lot of people will think we have to harvest this stuff from spiders and think it will be way too expensive. Once we (by we, I mean people much smarter than i smile.gif) can figure out a way to produce this stuff on a much larger scale, it will be insanely cheap and just as (if not more) effective than anything today. The possibilities for this are incredible, definitely excited to see where this will go smile.gif
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post #19 of 32
This is a cool find, but I wonder how different species of spider may fare? There are well over 40,000 and new ones being found all the time.
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post #20 of 32
Sounds very costly to produce...

Doubt people are going to give up their copper heat sinks for this, if the gains aren't like extreme, we would have to see an end product tested to judge if this is viable or not, what may look good in theory may turn out to be a holy nightmare or a failed product...

Time will tell if this is even worth investing in, I'd say with such an overcrowded market, this will most likely not be a good investment.
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