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post #61 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljason8eg View Post

Yeah I wouldn't call Forza or Gran Turismo racing sims. Fun games, but not racing sims.

Why wouldn't you call Gran Turismo a sim? I can't speak for Forza haven't played 4 yet and last one I played the grip was odd...

If you call GTR2 a sim then it'd be absurd to not call GT5 a sim while it might not be as detailed as iRacing it sure as hell isn't an arcade.

when I bought GTR2 there was NO learning curving jumping from GT5 I don't get why some PC gamers have to be so elitist... of all the cars I've driven in real life they react like their GT5 counterparts besides minute differences... is it because I've driven most of the JDM models and not USDM???
Evos 1-8, STI up to 2000 model, CTRs, ITRs, SiR, Mustangs, Altezzas an S2000 are a few that come to mind.

Yes they're a few cars with questionable performers (R35 GTR, 2010 Camaro SS) but from what I've read on corner-carvers iRacing has it's oddities too.
 
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post #62 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTurn View Post

Why wouldn't you call Gran Turismo a sim?


Because it is not.

It's a middlegrounds between arcade and sim. It is not an arcade because the physics engine lets you get a rather realistic feel, but it is not a full order sim either because in the full aid-less mode the engine still ommits certain simulation points, to try and make the game more enjoyable to the less hardcore player.
   
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post #63 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

Because it is not.
It's a middlegrounds between arcade and sim. It is not an arcade because the physics engine lets you get a rather realistic feel, but it is not a full order sim either because in the full aid-less mode the engine still ommits certain simulation points, to try and make the game more enjoyable to the less hardcore player.

You could say there are no racing sims.... because, "sim" is not a defined entity. It's opinion.

So, actually the talk about arcade vs sim to be fairly, is mostly rubbish. We should be discussing realism and view it as a sliding scale as opposed to something boolean like sim/arcade. You could go as far as to say GT5 is more realistic due to the sheer amount of vehicles.
post #64 of 72
To make it even more of a debate, I think there is definitely three categories for racing games. For example:

Arcade: Grid, Dirt, Test Drive, Need for Speeds,
Realistic: Gran Turismo, Forza, pCARS(if physics improve)
Simulation: iRacing, rFactors

Now, I am probably rFactor biased, but I think Gran Turismo definitely falls in 'not-quite-sim' category. I base my definition of race sim on the physics+force feedback combo. This is where rFactor 2 beta is especially good.
post #65 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

338
Quote:
If you saw the Project CARS trailer we posted back in January, you’ll already know how good it’s looking. Evil Avatar indicate that new screenshots have been released, giving us a closer look at those carefully modelled vehicles.
Source
More screens over at PCG smile.gif

well look good, all the grass coming up but why game maker dont do anything about trace ??? wheels leave mark on the grass
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post #66 of 72
Project cars is much more than Shift with tweaks.

If you do actually have access then go post on the WMD forum if you want to articulate how pcars is an arcade game or "Shift with tweaks". As of build 164 it's very much a sim physics and FFB wise but there's a year to go in development, the game advances every week. Only in October during the first month of availability last year was it Shift like. All that code has gone.

Most haven't played or claim they "have a friend" who has it. They just judge from prior games with EA at the helm or watch some chase cam video. These devs have made GTR GTL, the guy from Richard Burns Rally has worked on the code. The aim for the game is top physics and graphics.
Edited by routek - 3/6/12 at 8:58am
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post #67 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by routek View Post

Project cars is much more than Shift with tweaks.
If you do actually have access then go post on the WMD forum if you want to articulate how pcars is an arcade game or "Shift with tweaks". As of build 164 it's very much a sim physics wise but there's a year to go in development, the game advances every week. Only in October during the first month of availability last year was it Shift like. All that code has gone.
Most haven't played or claim they "have a friend" who has it. They just judge from prior games with EA at the helm or watch some chase cam video. These devs have made GTR GTL, the guy from Richard Burns Rally has worked on the code.

Thank you, someone with a brain.
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post #68 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTurn View Post

Why wouldn't you call Gran Turismo a sim? I can't speak for Forza haven't played 4 yet and last one I played the grip was odd...
If you call GTR2 a sim then it'd be absurd to not call GT5 a sim while it might not be as detailed as iRacing it sure as hell isn't an arcade.
when I bought GTR2 there was NO learning curving jumping from GT5 I don't get why some PC gamers have to be so elitist... of all the cars I've driven in real life they react like their GT5 counterparts besides minute differences... is it because I've driven most of the JDM models and not USDM???
Evos 1-8, STI up to 2000 model, CTRs, ITRs, SiR, Mustangs, Altezzas an S2000 are a few that come to mind.
Yes they're a few cars with questionable performers (R35 GTR, 2010 Camaro SS) but from what I've read on corner-carvers iRacing has it's oddities too.

The cars in GT5 feel too similar to me. It really does not surprise me. Think they modeled the tires and spent a lot of time on the physics for each and every car? Highly unlikely.

The problem is, everyone is going to have an opinion to what feels good, but most people aren't fast enough in the sim/game/whatever for their opinion to matter. Example; if you can only get 90% out of the car, of course its going to drive nice. Its that last 10% that things can start to fall apart. iRacing has this problem currently. The vast majority of the users think something feels fine (and it probably does at their driving ability), while the top 0.5% says no, it does this and that and needs work. The top guys are then labeled haters, as if they're just making up what they're saying to get attention.

Sure iRacing has its issues, mostly due to the tire model; too much grip, not enough falloff over a run. (Yet some people on there say its fine, and it has a lot of falloff, lol?) I'd easily take those issues instead of having to deal with a developer who clearly thinks he is above everyone else by banning people for posting videos of obvious and gamebreaking physics flaws.
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post #69 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by routek View Post

Project cars is much more than Shift with tweaks.
If you do actually have access then go post on the WMD forum if you want to articulate how pcars is an arcade game or "Shift with tweaks". As of build 164 it's very much a sim physics and FFB wise but there's a year to go in development, the game advances every week. Only in October during the first month of availability last year was it Shift like. All that code has gone.
Most haven't played or claim they "have a friend" who has it. They just judge from prior games with EA at the helm or watch some chase cam video. These devs have made GTR GTL, the guy from Richard Burns Rally has worked on the code. The aim for the game is top physics and graphics.

its shift without Ea and a wider more involved direction the only thing shift shares with this is its origins other then that its a completely different game
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post #70 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98uk View Post

You could say there are no racing sims.... because, "sim" is not a defined entity. It's opinion.
So, actually the talk about arcade vs sim to be fairly, is mostly rubbish. We should be discussing realism and view it as a sliding scale as opposed to something boolean like sim/arcade. You could go as far as to say GT5 is more realistic due to the sheer amount of vehicles.

I make my distinctions upon the physics engine and how it is applied to the vehicles, nothing else.

Although I agree, there should be a gradient instead of a 'this or that'.
   
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