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[VRZone] NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 Specifications Revealed - Page 7

post #61 of 139
Not sure what 580 successor will be called...Gtx 690..? And maybe their dual gpu card will be gtx 695 or gtx 790.

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post #62 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlademaster01 View Post

That's not what I meant. In a pipeline not only the amount of logic units and the clock frequency are important but also the structure or composition in a certain entity. nVidia thought geometry was the bottleneck in gaming so they designed Fermi from that perspective -- putting lots of ROPs and memory controllers in the pipeline. If the bottleneck isn't geometry or the memory controller ends up broken and therefore fails to deliver sufficient bandwidth then the extra die size does not add extra gaming performance -- so simply "performance" per mm² as you call it does not specify anything.

I'm really not sure what you're getting at. I cannot figure out why you don't see performance/mm² as an important figure. Die size is everything. It's what determines the cost of the GPU, affects yields, has an affect on heat generation and power consumption, etc.

There's two sides of the performance coin: number of units and architecture. Now the die size will change based on composition - you can't just add more shaders and necessarily get more performance - there's a balance you have to maintain. You know this.

What I'm saying is that you can only fit so many units in a certain space. Nvidia has less space to work with, so either they have an architecture that's superior to AMD's, or they have to make more efficient use of that space. In other words, they're at a disadvantage by using a smaller die. That doesn't mean they can't pull it off, but it goes without saying that a smaller die is going to have a tough time against a larger die based on the same process.

I do believe that GK104 will be pretty damn close to Tahiti XT, but I don't see a potential for it being much faster or slower. It's unlikely that it will blow Tahiti XT away. Nvidia would really need to work some magic - that or AMD's (apparent) ROP starvation with 79xx would need to hold them back enough for Nvidia to steal a win. Nvidia would need to get their formula correct.
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post #63 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Mcguirk View Post

Not sure what 580 successor will be called...Gtx 690..? And maybe their dual gpu card will be gtx 695 or gtx 790.
Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy S.

I don't see why it isn't called the 660ti or 670. Calling it the 680 makes it out to replace the 580. And if rumors of 15-20% faster then a 580 are true that's cool but I seriously doubt its price tag will fall below 500.00
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post #64 of 139
Forgive my graphical card ignorance, but wouldn't a 700 MHz GPU be weaker than a 1,200 MHz GPU???

Or am I missing something here?

What I'm reading is, this is some kind of re-branding or remake of an old card, is that correct?
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post #65 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

I dropped 2560x1600 after about 1 1/2 years and went back to 1080p. I couldn't justify the $2500 or so I spent on GPUs to keep playing games on max. 1080p, while looks worse, has been much less of a headache. I only upgrade my single GPU every year and I don't even need too.
Looks like 2x GTX 680 will cost about the same price as a single GTX 580 did at launch. I'm betting stores sell out fast, and put their prices well above MSRP though. frown.gif

I can see that one, its not exactly cheap! But still after using craploads of monitors from 15" to 30", CRT and LCD's, 50hz to 120hz. My current Dell 3008WFP is the monitor I have been most happy with ever. I love everything from the big resolution to the image quality. I went from 23" 120hz LG, it was blazing fast. But still everything about my 3008WFP just seems a little better, even though the 120hz was much faster in FPS games.

I don't think I can ever go back to less resolution than this, even though it will cost me a kidney each year to get new hardware...rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfc89 View Post

1080p 120hz is where its at. But again you need tons of gpu power to keep fps over 100fps to take full advantage of 120hz gaming. What I don't get is why they are calling this the 680 when it replaces the 560? What is the 580's replacement being called?

I had a 120hz 1080p monitor, and I was not happy with it what so ever. Yes it is damn fast in games, but I have yet to see a 120hz monitor with good image quality, frankly all 120hz monitors to date that I know of have terrible image quality compared to a slower high end IPS panel.

For me, image quality versus speed, I will rather take image quality. Even in fast paced games, I think my monitor is actually fast enough to keep up with the competition.

And after you have used 2560x1600 for everyday tasks, damn you really don't want to go back! redface.gif
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post #66 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfc89 View Post

Maxing out to you must be 30-40fps because at 2560x1600 a single 580 gets eaten alive in BF3. http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/XFX-Radeon-HD-7970-3GB-Black-Edition-and-CrossFire-Results/Battlefield-3
brb running the same fps as a xbox. I'll pass.

I said "A single GTX 580 can max pretty much everything"

Did I ever say that it could max everything? I used the modifier "pretty much" for a reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by killnine View Post

proof.gif
I don't think it's safe to assume that pricing at all.

Obviously i'm going by what a couple different rumors/sources are claiming this card will be priced at. I don't know why I would need to provide proof for something none of us know. This is a speculation and rumors thread afterall... you shouldn't take anything anyone says in this thread seriously.

Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [VRZone] NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 Specifications Revealed
Edited by Murlocke - 3/6/12 at 12:17pm
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post #67 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by go4life View Post

I can see that one, its not exactly cheap! But still after using craploads of monitors from 15" to 30", CRT and LCD's, 50hz to 120hz. My current Dell 3008WFP is the monitor I have been most happy with ever. I love everything from the big resolution to the image quality. I went from 23" 120hz LG, it was blazing fast. But still everything about my 3008WFP just seems a little better, even though the 120hz was much faster in FPS games.
I don't think I can ever go back to less resolution than this, even though it will cost me a kidney each year to get new hardware...rolleyes.gif
I had a 120hz 1080p monitor, and I was not happy with it what so ever. Yes it is damn fast in games, but I have yet to see a 120hz monitor with good image quality, frankly all 120hz monitors to date that I know of have terrible image quality compared to a slower high end IPS panel.
For me, image quality versus speed, I will rather take image quality. Even in fast paced games, I think my monitor is actually fast enough to keep up with the competition.
And after you have used 2560x1600 for everyday tasks, damn you really don't want to go back! redface.gif

Your 120hz monitor must have been crap. Try out a Samsung 950D or a BenQ 2420tx IT WILL BLOW YOUR MIND. The LG you had was a pretty poor performing gaming monitor. Much better suited for watching 3d tv etc. I have 120hz now and would never go back to 2560 resolutions. The lag and not being able to see anything over 60fps was the killer for me. Anyways who the hell buys a 120hz monitor for image quality and multi-tasking? 120hz is built for high performance gaming and 3D. If you want a monitor for image quality stick to 2560 but it will suffer in gaming. Can't have both.
Edited by rcfc89 - 3/6/12 at 12:15pm
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post #68 of 139
So much talk but no real solid facts, yes it's nice to speculate and debate but nothing is set in stone. Everyone just calm the nerd chills and relax! (me included) tongue.gif
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post #69 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

I'm really not sure what you're getting at. I cannot figure out why you don't see performance/mm² as an important figure. Die size is everything. It's what determines the cost of the GPU, affects yields, has an affect on heat generation and power consumption, etc.
There's two sides of the performance coin: number of units and architecture. Now the die size will change based on composition - you can't just add more shaders and necessarily get more performance - there's a balance you have to maintain. You know this.
What I'm saying is that you can only fit so many units in a certain space. Nvidia has less space to work with, so either they have an architecture that's superior to AMD's, or they have to make more efficient use of that space. In other words, they're at a disadvantage by using a smaller die. That doesn't mean they can't pull it off, but it goes without saying that a smaller die is going to have a tough time against a larger die based on the same process.
I do believe that GK104 will be pretty damn close to Tahiti XT, but I don't see a potential for it being much faster or slower. It's unlikely that it will blow Tahiti XT away. Nvidia would really need to work some magic - that or AMD's (apparent) ROP starvation with 79xx would need to hold them back enough for Nvidia to steal a win. Nvidia would need to get their formula correct.

You did read the whole post right?

I went through the process of designing an ASIC personally (a small one on an old 1.6µm process though) so I know what it means to work with a transistor budget or i.a.w. keeping the IC within certain bounds (die size). What I'm trying to tell you all this time is that you interpret "performance/mm²" incorrectly. Let me formulate the question at hand more explicitly. What performance are we talking about? Where does the ASIC need to excel? Based on these questions you optimize the architecture and therefore the pipelines in a certain way -- which logic units, in which order and in what quantity.

An architecture is only superior in certain aspects depending on the purpose it was designed for. Depending on what nVidia tried to accomplish with Kepler you get more "performance/mm²" in one application but less in another -- more TMUs (pixels/clock) and less ROPs (triangles/clock) vs. Fermi. The difference again depends on the application.

Of course there's also the fact that there can be implementation errors so that the ASIC does not perform as it was designed to. Such as the broken memory controller in GF100/110 or having troubles with wiring which causes extensive clock skew and worse physics.

I believe we had this discussion before where I pointed out the same thing though.
post #70 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfc89 View Post

Your 120hz monitor must have been crap. Try out a Samsung 950D or a BenQ 2420tx IT WILL BLOW YOUR MIND. The LG you had was a pretty poor performing gaming monitor. Much better suited for watching 3d tv etc. I have 120hz now and would never go back to 2560 resolutions. The lag and not being able to see anything over 60fps was the killer for me. Anyways who the hell buys a 120hz monitor for image quality and multi-tasking? 120hz is built for high performance gaming and 3D. If you want a monitor for image quality stick to 2560 but it will suffer in gaming. Can't have both.

I have tried both of those monitors, and I was not to impressed by those either really.
Yes I do realize that 120hz monitors are mostly for gaming but still, you don't game 24/7 and when you want to see a movie or a picture a friend send you, it's nice to have a little more image quality many of the 120hz monitors offer.

The day when we have 120hz 2560x1600 or better with nice image quality like IPS but with the speed of TN, I will be a happy man smile.gif
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