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Is the Q6600 Bottlenecking my Gtx 460SE? - Page 2

post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by addest3 View Post

This is very odd. Shouldn't the cpu usage or GPU usage be maxed out?

In a perfect system, "yes". In the real world "No". The answer to this gets painfully complicated.

For example, in some cases GPU memory can't feed the GPU data fast enough, and causes a tiny bottle neck. The GPU will have a small amount of "idle" time while waiting for the GPU memory to "catch up".

For example, If operating system stores a variable in the virtual memory instead of RAM, and the CPU needs to feed this variable to the GPU..their will be a small amount if "idle" time while accessing the hard drive. This will cause a tiny bottle neck.

The chip on your motherboard that controls the PCI-E bus, and sits between the GPU and the CPU, can causes a tiny bottleneck on certain motherboards.

I could probably think of 10 more examples if i tried. But all these tiny things can add up, and they are made worst by certain situations/software.

Basically, their are things that can "indirectly" bottleneck your GPU that you can't see, and they are all very complicated processes. Having a highly optimized game engine and the good drivers help,...but still there will always be little bottlenecks your can't see. You could play around with overclocking the memory settings on your GPU, to see if GPU memory is the bottleneck. thumb.gif It's most likely hard drives access or GPU memory speed that is keeping you from 100%, but it could also be one of 1,000 other little things. You also could turn off your virtual memory pageing file, and force everything into RAM if you suspect hard drive access are at fault.
Edited by crimsontears809739 - 3/8/12 at 9:50am
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post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimsontears809739 View Post

In a perfect system, "yes". In the real world "No". The answer to this gets painfully complicated.
For example, in some cases GPU memory can't feed the GPU data fast enough, and causes a tiny bottle neck. The GPU will have a small amount of "idle" time while waiting for the GPU memory to "catch up".
For example, If operating system stores a variable in the virtual memory instead of RAM, and the CPU needs to feed this variable to the GPU..their will be a small amount if "idle" time while accessing the hard drive. This will cause a tiny bottle neck.
The chip on your motherboard that controls the PCI-E bus, and sits between the GPU and the CPU, can causes a tiny bottleneck on certain motherboards.
I could probably think of 10 more examples if i tried. But all these tiny things can add up, and they are made worst by certain situations/software.
Basically, their are things that can "indirectly" bottleneck your GPU that you can't see, and they are all very complicated processes. Having a highly optimized game engine and the good drivers help,...but still there will always be little bottlenecks your can't see. You could play around with overclocking the memory settings on your GPU, to see if GPU memory is the bottleneck. thumb.gif It's most likely hard drives access or GPU memory speed that is keeping you from 100%, but it could also be one of 1,000 other little things. You also could turn off your virtual memory pageing file, and force everything into RAM if you suspect hard drive access are at fault.


I second this and add:

Yes, in this case your CPU is the bottleneck. You see, global CPU usage is a false indicative of whether your CPU is the bottleneck or not. In the case of Crysis and Crysis Warhead, the Cry Engine 2 can't make an efficient use of the 4 cores. It does use the four cores, but when the first core reaches the 90%'s usage, you will start seeing a bottleneck. That is to say the engine doesn't do a good job balancing the load on the cores. I have the exact same bottleneck as you (although I have 10 more fps) with my Q9550 at 3.4 Ghz.

How do I know this ? Because I've run RivaTuner OSD Server with HWiNFO64 and can check in realtime both CPU usage, core by core and GPU usage, along with fps. id's RAGE for example, does a much better job balancing the load. One of the cores is constantly at 100% load and the others vary, but I get 60fps with everything maxed out at all times.

I've read a little bit on the engine Skyrim uses and, while I'm not certain, it might well also be the case. Your only solution is either overclock your CPU as much as you can or get a new CPU that has more performance and Turbo Boost, which will favour games that make good use of one and two threads.
Edited by tpi2007 - 3/8/12 at 10:43am
 
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post #13 of 19
To me it sounds more like a VRAM bottleneck than a CPU bottleneck.

A Q6600 is more than enough for a GTX460. But a single 460 isn't that great for modern games on max settings.
 
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post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post


I second this and add:
Yes, in this case your CPU is the bottleneck. You see, global CPU usage is a false indicative of whether your CPU is the bottleneck or not. In the case of Crysis and Crysis Warhead, the Cry Engine 2 can't make an efficient use of the 4 cores. It does use the four cores, but when the first core reaches the 90%'s usage, you will start seeing a bottleneck. That is to say the engine doesn't do a good job balancing the load on the cores. I have the exact same bottleneck as you (although I have 10 more fps) with my Q9550 at 3.4 Ghz.
How do I know this ? Because I've run RivaTuner OSD Server with HWiNFO64 and can check in realtime both CPU usage, core by core and GPU usage, along with fps. id's RAGE for example, does a much better job balancing the load. One of the cores is constantly at 100% load and the others vary, but I get 60fps with everything maxed out at all times.
I've read a little bit on the engine Skyrim uses and, while I'm not certain, it might well also be the case. Your only solution is either overclock your CPU as much as you can or get a new CPU that has more performance and Turbo Boost, which will favour games that make good use of one and two threads.

I agree with this theory, the Q6600 at 2.4 is a little light on per-thread performance so Skyrim could definitely cause problems.
The easiest way to check is to overclock a bit and see if you have almost linear scaling between CPU frequency and FPS, if you do the CPU is limiting performance and you would gain by having it overclocked and if you don't then you know it isn't the problem. smile.gif
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post #15 of 19
I will say that it probably is.

I recently went from a q6600 @ 3.9ghz with a gtx 480 to a 2600k using the same gtx 480. And at least in bf3 my fps quite literally doubled. I had huge performance increases across the board.

I bet that if you took that same card and dropped it into a socket 1155 motherboard + cpu you would see a large improvement.

Oh and my clocks on the gtx 480 are 850/1700/2000 on both the q6600 and the 2600k.

I also should add that I game at 1680x1050 as well so you running 1920x1080 would probably have a larger increase in performance yields.
Edited by KusH - 3/8/12 at 11:11am
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post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVGA Phaedrus View Post

Your Q6600 shouldn't bottleneck you too much at all, though an overclock certainly wouldn't hurt. I run a Q9550 @3.7GHz and a Radeon 6950 (equivalent to GTX470, significantly faster) and I see no bottlenecking except in severely CPU-limited games (which Skyrim is not). Core 2 Quad can still hold its own with mid-range cards in most games.

Actually ... Skyrim only uses 2 cores (with any degree of efficiency, anyway). So if one is seeing 50% total CPU usage on a quad core, that basically means they're entering CPU bottleneck territory with Skyrim. And it's the same with the first two Crysis games ... they're dual core games as well.

Ergo, IMO it's entirely possible that on both those particular tests, YES OP, you are getting a CPU BN going on there. Doesn't mean you will in every test/gaming scenario, but on those two ... my guess is that you have one. You could always try OC'ing the chip by a certain % and checking to see what % FPS change you get. Comparing those two % changes will give you a very good idea whether you're BN'ed at the stock clocks.
Edited by brettjv - 3/8/12 at 10:38pm
    
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post #17 of 19
Defiitly oc at least too. 3ghhzz i knoow its not gaming bbut my ppd while folding almost doubled from doing this on my q6600, from 3-4k to8k+ smile.gif then again my 2500k i5 gets upwards of 20k by itself somwetimes. so if you oc'd a bit you shoul be fine for now when i get some spare time ill do some comparisons with my 460 as i have a q6600 and a 2500k smile.gif
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post #18 of 19
I think you should check to see if any of the cores on the cpu are at 100% while playing...if so...cpu might be a bottleneck.
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post #19 of 19
here are some bench marks i did, DX11 and DX10 using 3dmark software as it does a cpu/gpu combo test, in terms of the gpu running smoothly there wasnt actually much difference. only when it came to the cpu helping with physics effects and such (not physx), did the 2500k really take off,if someone can tell me how to use my steam account on another pc i might do some benchies using games skyrim, arkham city etc thumb.gif

3702500K

376Q6600

4562500K

444Q6600
thumb.gif
btw 460@760Mhz for all tests and
Q6600@3.0
i5 2500K@4.5 just to show the potential,
looking at it i think if you oc-d your q6600 at least to 3.0 3.3 better you would be good to go for a bit longer smile.gif
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