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[Fud] Kepler 256-bit, faster in DX11 games than 7970 - Page 12

post #111 of 145
Sorry if I missed anything in the previous pages, I didn't feel like reading everything. Is this card a gtx 670 ti or a gtx 680? Is this going to be the high end card for the 600 series or will it be released this fall?

Thanks in advance
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post #112 of 145
Sorry nvidia, AMD has won me over, you were too late :/
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post #113 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by ESP View Post

Well thats a bit odd, I was expecting it to be all around faster then AMD. It makes sense though, because Nvidia only seems to be faster then AMD in very particular games, which makes me think it has more to do with them optimizing their cards for those games, or optimizing those games against AMD cards.
Am I the only one that finds it odd that Nvidia performance is so drastically different from game to game?
Also, while Nvidia was the first to hop on GPU Compute architecture, it would be a bit pre-mature to sacrifice current game performance for future game performance. That doesn't really make any sense. Unless the reason is will run faster on DX11 games is because of them having a hand in those game development...

Name one DX10/DX9 game that isn't able to be maxed out on current cards. While not all are above 60fps minimum, most new games are going to be DX11. BF3 showed you can have a game DX10/11 only and still sell a lot of copies, you can bet that other companies are thinking hard about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

So the GTX 680 is smaller, roughly the same speed, probably requires less power, and is likely to be much cheaper than the 7970.
Way to go NVIDIA. I might buy two depending on power consumption.
According to many sources the card will be around $350. That would put this card at a much better buy than anything ATI has on the market. What are you seeing that i'm not?
This is a score for NVIDIA if they launch at the prices rumored. A big score. It renders the 7950 and 7970 terrible buys unless ATI lowers their prices. Equal, and sometimes better, performance for nearly half the price.

QFT. This chip is tiny for nVidia cards, 28nm is treating them really well. And it'll be like Fermi, a lot of hate for the 6 series but when nVidia refresh it to the 7 series, people will love it. rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by test tube View Post

Three weeks ago it was destroying the 7970, now it's faster in some cases? ;\

Keep in mind that at $350 it'd be competing against HD6970s/HD7870s, not the HD7970 at current prices. Not to mention destroying doesn't always mean performance only, a HD4870 destroyed a GTX 260 simply because it was similar performance for a lot less and finally, a lot of OCN members took "Kepler is better than HD7970" to mean "IT DESTROYS IT"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapientia View Post

If it outclasses Tahiti, don't expect $350. I'd be absolutely shocked if that happened. It'll probably fall in between the 7950/70 in most cases, and it will be priced to match them.

Why not? nVidia might want to take AMD a peg or two down, they've lost a lot of marketshare recently. (It went from like 70/30 to 50/50 in the past few years)

The HD4870 also disproves that statement, it beat the original GTX 260 and was priced much (ie. $200) lower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ESP View Post

Does that mean that a 7870 is a way better buy? Because it is exactly what you just described. We've got benchmarks and everything for that card.

Except the HD7870 doesn't beat the HD7970...This is meant to, from current rumours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by j0zef View Post

I dont believe the $350 price tag for multiple reasons:
1) It will undercut the price of GTX 580
2) 7970s are selling out just fine now, why should they price it that much lower?
3) When they have the lead, they never underprice their cards. Why would they start now?
I think someone misheard the $350 for this card, and it was actually meant for GK108 or 106. Most likely they will price it at the same price that GTX 580 debuted at.
But what I really want to know is the OC ability of these cards. 7970 & 7950 are amazing OCers.

1) And? It's practically an EoL card now. nVidia will have stopped/be stopping production of them if Kepler is this close to launching, or be lowering the RRP dramatically if they plan to use it as a lower end card like the 9800GTX+ was to the GT200 series. It has happened before, remember the 8800GT that beat a 8800GTS for far less money?
2) They'd sell a lot more, think about it..If I could get near HD7970 performance in most games, and better performance in some for half the price with no major negatives, why would I even consider AMD?
3) It might not be the definitive lead, and this is GK104 remember..GK100 is still yet to be seen, and that's the real GTX 680.

AMD launched the HD4870 for way less than the GTX 260 it matched, because they were late to the market and needed/wanted to gain market and mindshare as much as possible. Considering nVidia has gone from a 70% discrete marketshare to 50%, they'll be looking to fixing that...I doubt $350 too, maybe for a cut down GTX 670, but for a GTX 680? $400-$450 I think. They want to undercut AMD if they can still make a good profit from the cards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin1 View Post

$1,100 on two 7970's in CFX w/ crappy drivers..

Oh look, it's AMDs apparently crappy drivers again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banzai? View Post

Doesn't the 5/6/7000 series from AMD have the advantage of DX10.1, or was that actually useless unless games 'featured' DX10.1?

DX10.1 was DX10 with the features nVidia asked Microsoft to cut so they could launch G80 faster, so it has additional stuff in it that requires the developers to make use of. So just like the DX10.1 increase in DX10.1 games, the DX11 performance increase from nVidia would only apply in DX11 games. Which, because all major gaming cards support it, will be much more heavily utilized than DX10.1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

.
Fermi was faster then and until 79xx. This was due to better better dx11 performance. I don't see how this will be faster in dx11 when 79xx is already overkill in terms tessalation which is really the only big thing with dx11

There's more than just the tessellator for tessellation performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post

One thing you can be sure of,nVidia will price it where it performs.There will be no "magic" $350 GPU.

The 8800GT never existed, right? It cost $300. It beat nearly everything out when overclocked, apart from nVidia's absolute top of the line 8800Ultra. Even stock, it was in spitting distance of a 8800GTX.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ESP View Post

That sounds quite a fit like something an AMD fan would say, but definitely not something an Nvidia fan would say. Now we know who you normally buy lol

I've had mostly nVidia GPUs by far, yet I'll happily go AMD. If you really want proof at my impartialness to brand, look at how much I defend AMDs drivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

1.) Your entire post is "rediculousness". It's spelled "ridiculousness", the word "cant" has an apostrophe in it because it's a contraction, and your use of the word "its" would have an apostrophe in it, "it's" is a contraction for "it is". At least you ended the sentence with a period. My point here is that it's hard for anyone to take you seriously when your grammar sucks.
2.) It has been less than 2 months, not 4.

Not to mention, nVidia still got quite a few sales with Fermi and that was 6 months late.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

Hate to say it but if this is true it's probabally an overall loss for Nvidia. The vast vast vast majority of games are still DX9 and will continue to be DX9 for the forseeable future. In fact the only notable DX11 games are Metro, Battlefield, and Crysis 2.

Notice that BF3 sold massive amounts and its DX10/11 only? Other companies are definitely looking at that. Plus, even if it matches a HD7970 or is a little slower..Well, I'd rather have a little future proofing over slightly faster DX9 performance, especially considering my OCed 470 is nearly enough to max out every DX9 game, let alone an OCed 7970.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

Yeah I don't agree. Dx9 and Dx11 Arkham City look very similar. Brighter lights and some bumpy objects are about the only difference as you said. If the game was truly built from the ground up using DX11 it would be stunning no doubt but we won't be seeing games like that till 720 and PS4 arrive and it's financially responsible to do it.

You do realise that DX10 and DX11 are mainly about increasing efficiency? So you can get higher FPS with the same sized textures, polygons, etc. The idea being that developers can then use higher poly meshes and higher resolution textures in the same performance segment than before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penryn View Post

Yea so this releases and next month we get Tenerife XT so we can watch NVidia dig themselves out of a hole again. It has kinda been over for NVidia since AMD pulled out the price/performance strategy back in the HD 4870/ GTX 280 days. And considering this thing is *10%* faster than a 7970, a mild overclock should overcome that, granted we don't know how Kepler OCs but knowing NVidia I doubt it will get an easy 200-300mhz bump on air like the 7970s unless they're being REALLY conservative with that *rumored*705/1410 mhz clock setup.

Considering a 470 can easily get a 200Mhz clock bump... (607Mhz stock, 850Mhz OCed for my 470. That's fairly conservative too) I'd think its fairly possible.

Remember, nVidia has hotclocked shaders unlike AMD; a 150Mhz core speed increase is a 300Mhz shader speed increase.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Am I the only person who couldn't care less if a card is better or worse or doesn't even run DX11?
Give me a card that runs DX6 through 9 efficiently and supports 10 (even if its not particularly great at it) and I'd be happy. There are all of like what.. 3 games that actually use DX11 for anything important? And only 2 that I give a rats arse about.
As sad as it is, that isnt going to change until new consoles are launched. I've given up on wanting what is technologically superior. Now I just want what works in the real world.

Your GTX 295 is about 3 years old now, in 3 years time DX11 will be much more prevalent. If you got that card you'd be upgrading much sooner than a card that supports DX11 well, even if it goes unused.
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post #114 of 145
No Benchmarks rolleyes.gif
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post #115 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Oh look, it's AMDs apparently crappy drivers again.

To be fair, we are having issues with quite a few games in CrossfireX. Normal issues of it not working "Performance wise" on new titles is acceptable, what is not acceptable that it takes down your whole system occasionally for no reason. Reminding me of 5870 CrossfireX issues, only this time disabling ULPS and other tricks don't seem to work. At the mercy of driver releases...
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post #116 of 145
To be fair, everyone is skeptical because Nvidia overhyped Fermi. Fermi was supposed to be God's gift to video cards, and it wasn't that much more powerful than an HD 5870 at the time of release (and it came 6 months later.) To top it off, the GTX 480 wasn't a fully unlocked chip (only 480 cores), it ran hot, and used more power than an HD 5970, AMD's dual GPU card at the time. While nvidia fixed most of these issues with the GTX 5xx cards, it still used more power than AMD's competing solutions. Overall, I consider Fermi to be a good architecture, but it was not ground breaking by any means. The last ground breaking architecture to come out of Nvidia was G80. It may have been power hungry, but the numbers were head, neck, and shoulders above anything else at the time of release.

I'm skeptical because now they are saying that DX11 games will be faster. What does that mean for DX10 and DX9 games? Are they going to be faster too? If not, then it will be difficult to argue the validity of Kepler during for today's games. Skyrim and Mass Effect 3 are DX9 games. Granted Mass Effect 3 runs perfectly on most cards from 2 years ago, but still. There are quite a few games that are coming down the pipeline that still only use DX9.

Fermi was a tessellation monster. I took AMD 2 years to fully catch up. Then again, AMD had the more power-efficient architecture, and as of now, they still hold that title. If Kepler changes that, fantastic. Until then, I take Nvidia marketing and rumors with a grain of salt. In other words, I want proof of these claims.
Edited by Mad Pistol - 3/12/12 at 9:14am
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post #117 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

To be fair, everyone is skeptical because Nvidia overhyped Fermi. .


Could not agree more. The nvidia hype machine was ridiculous for the GTX 480 and there were 17 million fake slides and "rumors" about how it would be 5 times faster than 5870. Now how many people withheld their purchase because of these ridiculous rumors? In the end the 480 turned out to be 5-10% faster while being a hot loud piece of junk. I hope to be pleasantly surprised by kepler but i'm SICK of the slides and rumors that seem to vary each day. I definitely would not be surprised if history repeated itself in this respect.

Basically, nvidia makes good hardware but their marketing department are a bunch of deceptive scumbags. Thats my opinion, anyway.
post #118 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by tx-jose View Post

will wait for actual benchmarks before deciding what cards to get.
all these rumors mean nothing to me.....

This.

Although I do hope they are better than the AMD ones, for price drops to come. The new AMD cards are overpriced imo.
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post #119 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

*snip*

Except you make one critical flaw - DX11 needs to actually become prevalent BEFORE this cards becomes outdated for any of it's DX11 optimization to matter.

DX11 is not relevant NOW. There are currently 0 games which require it and maybe what.. 5 that use it to any noticeable degree whatsoever? Maybe 2 that you would actually play?

DX11 isn't GOING to become relevant any time soon. The vast majority of games being put out today are still DX9. Even those with the option of DX10/11 still don't get much if any benefit from doing so. Lets face it, as much as we would all like game publisher's to use newer, better technologies, they aren't going to until they have to. It's cheaper and easier for them to port their console games over to dx9.

By the time games start making extensive use of something beyond DX9, DX12 or 13 will be out in the market, along with new consoles, a new generation of console ports, and several new generations of video cards. The argument that I should upgrade to DX11 NOW is irrelevant as NOW my card is still more than powerful enough and LATER, even kepler will be outdated.
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post #120 of 145
I am driven out of my mind with the rumours and speculation. If this thing doesn't have legit reviews out to settle things by the end of the week I'm going to lose it.
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| XSPC | Dual RX360 | | Dual MCP-655 | Variable-Speed | | Koolance | RP-452x2 | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
MonitorPowerCase
| Acer | P243W | 1920 x 1200 | | Enermax | MODU87+ | 900W | | CaseLabs | M8 + Pedestal | 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razer 580 | 2-way SLI | 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
| XSPC | RX360 | | Phobya | Xtreme 200| | MCP 655 | Variable-Speed | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
MonitorPowerCase
| Acer | P243W | 1920 x 1200 | | Enermax | MODU87+ | 900W | | CoolerMaster | HAF X | 
  hide details  
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Óðinn
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Methuselah
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razor 580 | Dual SLI | 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
| XSPC | Dual RX360 | | Dual MCP-655 | Variable-Speed | | Koolance | RP-452x2 | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
MonitorPowerCase
| Acer | P243W | 1920 x 1200 | | Enermax | MODU87+ | 900W | | CaseLabs | M8 + Pedestal | 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
| Intel Core i7 | 2600K | 4.2GHz @ 1.33v | | ASUS | Maximus IV Extreme | | ASUS | ENGTX 580 | 933MHz @ 1.138v | 2-way SLI | | G.Skill | RipjawsX | 2133MHz | 8GB | 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
| Intel | 510 SSD | 120GB | | Western Digital | Caviar Black | 1TB | | XSPC | Raystorm | | XSPC | Razer 580 | 2-way SLI | 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
| XSPC | RX360 | | Phobya | Xtreme 200| | MCP 655 | Variable-Speed | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
MonitorPowerCase
| Acer | P243W | 1920 x 1200 | | Enermax | MODU87+ | 900W | | CoolerMaster | HAF X | 
  hide details  
Reply
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [Fud] Kepler 256-bit, faster in DX11 games than 7970