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[Fud] Kepler 256-bit, faster in DX11 games than 7970 - Page 5

post #41 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

So the GTX 680 is smaller, roughly the same speed, probably requires less power, and is likely to be much cheaper than the 7970.
Way to go NVIDIA. I might buy two depending on power consumption.
According to many sources the card will be around $350. That would put this card at a much better buy than anything ATI has on the market. What are you seeing that i'm not?
This is a score for NVIDIA if they launch at the prices rumored. A big score. It renders the 7950 and 7970 terrible buys unless ATI lowers their prices. Equal, and sometimes better, performance for nearly half the price.


ATI is Dead.

 

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post #42 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banzai? View Post

Doesn't the 5/6/7000 series from AMD have the advantage of DX10.1, or was that actually useless unless games 'featured' DX10.1?

It was useless in 99% of games, and definitely did not make a performance gap of 560 Ti vs 7970 in the other 1% .

Saying this card will run like a 560 Ti in DX9/DX10 and better than 7970 in DX11 would require some pretty incredible driver optimization for DX11, and absolutely no optimization for DX9/DX10. Sure, the 7970 might run DX9/DX10 better than the GTX 680, while the 680 runs DX11 better but it's to early to tell and it most likely won't be a big difference. The spec of the 680 are much better than a GTX 580... so to say the card will run like a 560 Ti in DX9/DX10 makes no sense to me.
Edited by Murlocke - 3/7/12 at 11:09am
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post #43 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr216 View Post

I'd be shocked it it launches at that price, nothing against nvidia but that rumour is almost certainly complete twaddle. If its perfoming equallish to a 7970 then I'd anticipate it priced around the 7950 mark with both companies shuffling prices down to match each other.
The die on the 7970 is slightly smaller than the 6970 and we know the yeilds are good so we know the price has plenty of give in it. There just hasn't been any reason to move it. Competition is good for all of us though hopefully we get a good solid price war those are the best smile.gif
The irony would not be lost on the 6970 tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

It was useless in 99% of games, and definitely did not make a performance gap of 560 Ti vs 7970 in the other 1% .
Saying this card will run like a 560 Ti in DX9/DX10 and better than 7970 in DX11 would require some pretty incredible driver optimization for DX11, and absolutely no optimization for DX9/DX10. Sure, the 7970 might run DX9/DX10 better than the GTX 680, while the 680 runs DX11 better but it's to early to tell and it most likely won't be a big difference. The spec of the 680 are much better than a GTX 580... so to say the card will run like a 560 Ti in DX9/DX10 makes no sense to me.

Perhaps there was a bottleneck regarding the hardware operating in a manner that supported all 3 environments, where as now the dx11 has been isolated. Why does performance need to be optimized any further in DX9, especially if one it is holding back DX11 accelerated support. So there is a potential solution to say that it may operate no better than a mid range 560 TI in certain circumstances as the performance was good enough. Making it unnecessary to upgrade/change that design, however the 560 TI, let alone the 580, did have performance issues with some DX11 titles and ultra high settings, before reaching VRAM limitations. Requiring many users to SLI/Tri-SLI to get the desired minimum FPS. So it improves upon the 580 in the DX11 department, however to cut costs, development of faster DX9 technology was not included. Think of this as a smart card. It improved what it needed to improve upon, and this could also account for the costs being lowered to this rumored 299~349$. This is also why I suggested benchmarking wise, it would be slower (overall) than a 7970.

I confess, I know nothing about hardware design in GPUs, but one of the early rumors a while back is that these "Kepler" cores are of a different construct so regardless of having "more" they have the potential to be weaker, take that into consideration with the pricing consideration rumor. Trying to piece together aspects of the rumor mill to surmise some idea of what we may see. I could be totally off key here. I am very eager to see the new hardware and benchmarks regardless!
Edited by RagingCain - 3/7/12 at 11:23am
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post #44 of 145
AMD's goal right now is to return to profitability, not increase market share. When you want to increase market share, you price competitively (i.e. the 4k/5k series). When you want to be profitable, you price at comfortable margins (i.e. 6k/7k series). Nvidia has been in profit-first mode since they retired the 8800gt, so you'd better believe they won't be trying to give cards away. If you're counting on competition to bring about big discounts, I wouldn't hold my breath. I think a best-case, realistic scenario is we see the 7970 drop about $50, maybe $100 depending on how aggressive AMD wants to be to match the 680 which I believe will be around $450-$500.
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post #45 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Perhaps there was a bottleneck regarding the hardware operating in a manner that supported all 3 environments, where as now the dx11 has been isolated. Why does performance need to be optimized any further in DX9, especially if one it is holding back DX11 accelerated support. So there is a potential solution to say that it may operate no better than a mid range 560 TI in certain circumstances as the performance was good enough. Making it unnecessary to upgrade/change that design, however the 560 TI, let alone the 580, did have performance issues with some DX11 titles and ultra high settings, before reaching VRAM limitations. Requiring many users to SLI/Tri-SLI to get the desired minimum FPS. So it improves upon the 580 in the DX11 department, however to cut costs, development of faster DX9 technology was not included. Think of this as a smart card. It improved what it needed to improve upon, and this could also account for the costs being lowered to this rumored 299~349$. This is also why I suggested benchmarking wise, it would be slower (overall) than a 7970.
I confess, I know nothing about hardware design in GPUs, but one of the early rumors a while back is that these "Kepler" cores are of a different construct so regardless of having "more" they have the potential to be weaker, take that into consideration with the pricing consideration rumor. Trying to piece together aspects of the rumor mill to surmise some idea of what we may see. I could be totally off key here. I am very eager to see the new hardware and benchmarks regardless!

I disagree, just a few more days and we will know for sure. smile.gif

Also, I completely missread you so hopefully I edited out my original post fast enough. I thought you were saying people were adding SLI to increase VRAM. I need a nap.
Edited by Murlocke - 3/7/12 at 11:34am
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post #46 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by j0zef View Post

I dont believe the $350 price tag for multiple reasons:
3) When they have the lead, they never underprice their cards. Why would they start now?

Point 1 I agree with. 2 is iffy (TSMC isn't even in production right now, so "out of stock" on 7970s doesn't mean they're selling like hotcakes.. it means there aren't any to sell) but this?

I could easily say the same thing about AMD. Before the HD7xxx series, when AMD had the lead (or could contest the lead) they would push awesome price points. This generation they're trying something new. Why's it so hard to imagine Nvidia might take a new route, too?
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post #47 of 145

580 GTX will probably drop down to $380-$430.

680 GTX will price between $549 - $600.

HD 7970 is currently at $569 - $640.

 

AMD will force to drop card down to $450-$500 range which is where it should be.

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post #48 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Yes, Nvidia performs better in some games, and worse in others. In some cases, after a while, it ends up being the reverse. Crysis is a TWIMTBP game, yet AMD managed to get the game performing better on their cards compared to Nvidia after a while.
What do you mean it's premature "to sacrifice current game performance for future game performance" ? We still have no data. What we do have is that AMD did just that. Games in DX9 mode are performing worse than games in DX11. And AMD did that mistake on the HD 7750 / HD 7770 too, where it doesn't make any sense because you end up with a card where you can't play acceptably at either rendering mode.

I was just pointing out that Nvidia makes a point to ensure their stuff looks much better or certain benchmarks, so that while it very well might beat the 7970 in some games, it isn't because of the card as much as working with the developers to make sure their card looks great in those benchmarks. It simply allows for a skewing of the over all picture; it makes it so they can say things like 'beats the 7970' when in reality the card is overall much slower. I'm not saying that this is the case for their upcoming cards, but it sounds like it, and it has been the case for the last couple of generations very strongly. Sort of like the 560ti vs the 6870, the 6870 overall is a much better performer for the money, but because of a few skewed benchmarks, it makes the 560ti seems much better then it is.

The reason I said it is premature "to sacrifice current game performance for future game performance" is because that doesn't sound like something that Nvidia would do. It was a statement of over all skepticism about the information. It would be much more likely that the performance in older games is not actually going to be sacrificed for DX11 performance but that, again, Nvidia has been spending time (and mostly money) working with developers of games/benchmarks that are in DX11 or being developed in DX11 in order to make it appear like their cards "are better at DX11 then the competition's".

As far as your statement about the AMD 7750 and 7770 they are perfectly fine in any direct X mode but poor performers overall because, even though their price doesn't suggest it, they are entry level cards. I have no doubt that in 6 months the 7770 will be a $125 card, and in 1 year mostly likely end up being a <$100 card.
    
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post #49 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

I disagree, just a few more days and we will know for sure. smile.gif
Also, I completely missread you so hopefully I edited out my original post fast enough. I thought you were saying people were adding SLI to increase VRAM. I need a nap.

Oh your fine, I am uber sick right now at work using Powershell and I accidentally just changed my wallpaper. I will admit my idea is far-fetched and not the simplest of explanations. I try not to get too hooked on rumors. Definitely looking forward to release, I am excited for sure.
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post #50 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by test tube View Post

Three weeks ago it was destroying the 7970, now it's faster in some cases? ;\

lol 3 weeks ago it was a rumor...and now still is a rumor, all of this is speculation, we won't know how fast it is until we get benchmarks.
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XSPC Raystorm EK DCP 4.0 Gentle Typhoon AP-15 Phobya 200mm Radiator 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EK-FC680 GTX - Acetal EK-FC680 GTX - Acetal EK-FC Bridge DUAL Parallel 3 -Slot Koolance VL3N quick disconnects 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 7 Ultimate 64  Dell 2410 1920x1080 Logitech MK320 Corsair AX750 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
600T SE Logitech G700 Mionix Propus 380 Logitech 2.1 
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Evolution
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i5 2500k 4.5ghz Asus P8Z68-V Pro/Gen3 EVGA GTX 680 EVGA GTX 680 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Corsair Vengence Corsair Force 3 Seagate XSPC EX240 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC Raystorm EK DCP 4.0 Gentle Typhoon AP-15 Phobya 200mm Radiator 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EK-FC680 GTX - Acetal EK-FC680 GTX - Acetal EK-FC Bridge DUAL Parallel 3 -Slot Koolance VL3N quick disconnects 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 7 Ultimate 64  Dell 2410 1920x1080 Logitech MK320 Corsair AX750 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
600T SE Logitech G700 Mionix Propus 380 Logitech 2.1 
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Reply
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [Fud] Kepler 256-bit, faster in DX11 games than 7970