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post #61 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreatsquare View Post

Truth time, the #1 reason I hate Origin is that I hate EA.
...do I need any other?

I think you're in the wrong thread, this one is about DLC, not DRM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james_ant View Post

If they were working on it before it went gold then that means at one point they had to have decided to cut it from the game and sell it separately as DLC. Hence we return to the problem of Day 1 DLC.
Yes, more content costs more to develop. But what they are doing is lowering the standards by pushing more content into DLC's. It took me 60 hours on my first play-through of Mass Effect 1, around 24 hours to beat Mass Effect 2.
In this day and age there is no reason to be cutting cutting content from games when we have all sorts of digital delivery services that will continue to earn them a profit as long as the internet exists.
Obviously I don't like what their doing with all this DLC. No I don't plan on buying the game. Why would I buy a game I don't like when there are so many great alternatives right now?

As projects near completion certain parts of the staff may have less work on their plate (one example being concept artists, and designers), should those folks sit around idle until after day 1, or get a head-start on the DLC so that they customer can have more content sooner? And some food for thought, will more people be playing ME3 one the first week it ships, or 6 months after it ships? Probably more on the first week. The sooner you release DLC, the more people will download it, and that increases profit, and means more of your consumers will get to enjoy that extra content.

As the years go by here on OCN, I see so many threads in which gamers rage about game development decisions they cannot understand. I was in a similar position before I was in the industry, I thought many companies were just evil and cared only about money. In the end money is one main goal, of course. Without that money they couldn't make the next game they wanted to make, or continue employing the staff of 200 that just made the last game. But realize this, in order to get the most money they have to make the games people want the most. Games are a "want", not a "need", nobody is obligated to buy the games they make, so they had better make something people will want and like. You can damn well bet they're trying to make the best game they possibly can given their time and budget constraints.
Edited by lordikon - 3/8/12 at 6:20pm
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post #62 of 184
This might be a tad off topic but the whole DLC/paying extra to unlock what you “already have” is something you’ll see often outside of games. For example, Agilent (test equipment company) came out with a new line of oscilloscopes not too long ago. On one tier, there are the 70MHz, 100MHz, and 200MHz models with prices ranging from $1,200 to $2,200. Here’s the kicker, they all have identical hardware. You have to buy software upgrades to unlock extra bandwidth that the hardware is capable of. Not to mention other software upgrades that makes your hardware more usable. How about a $500 software unlock for a waveform generator that’s already there in the hardware?

It’s not so bad for games yet… but imagine Sony or Microsoft implementing something like that to their consoles. Want backwards compatibility? You might need to pay extra… I don’t know. Food for thought?
post #63 of 184
Ok i would pay or not buy a DLC that came 6 months after the game but why pay $60 for the game and $15 for DLC which is 1 month after the game? Learn from Blizzard. Even if they Split SC2 in 3 parts and even if they add next to nothing the time alone between the releases is enough for you to want them. Forget ME3. When are the gold old days with CSS and CS 1.6 where you had infinite maps you could play? People could make maps and host them online. Now they are controlling what we do or play. I would love to play custom maps for BF3. Also its like buying Cars and only way to make them a bit better is to fully load them. No after market Mods at all.
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post #64 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

The bottom line is that more content costs more money to develop. How do you measure how much content should be in a game and still have decent profits, or what to charge for a certain amount of content? Some entire games take only a few hours to complete and cost $50, but we're going to complain about ME3 for having a small portion of their DLC assets on the media that shipped?
If anything EA did you all a favor, they included what they had done so far on the DVD, which means you'll have that much less to download if you decide to buy the DLC. What benefit would it have been to remove those assets from the final copy and force people to download it instead?
ME3 is a full and complete game without the DLC. So all that's going on in this thread is people complaining they couldn't have more content for free. Should EA have worked on ME3 another 2 years, and delivered twice as much content, and still sell the game for $60? If it had twice the content would you have paid twice as much? Doubt it. The content cost money to make, and you as the consumer have to decide if the game has a good content/price ratio. If you don't think ME3 has enough content without its DLC, don't buy it, no big deal. If enough people think the same thing, sales will decline, and EA would figure out that they were losing sales due to lack of content in their games.

I have no intentions of buying ME3 anyway. I have the first one and I don't see the fuss. For me it's just a problem with DLC in general.

I think you mentioned 4GB being installed needlessly somewhere? I know you were on about ME3, but BF:BC2 did this with Vietnam. I had to download the whole of the Vietnam DLC (I would call it an expansion like DICE do, but it was 4 maps and 5 new guns) on a 2Mbit connection just to play BC2. That's slightly different to it being included on the disc and such, but just pointing out that companies still do hair brained things with their content.

I think the point is that people know DLC is a money grab. It would be fine if it was as you say. Not enough time to get everything they wanted into the game. Wanting to expand the game for their fans. But it's not, is it? It's demanded by the publisher and contracted into a game. The whole point of it is to turn a £60 game into a £500 game.

350

^ Because of this utter bastard.

The rise of DLC is directly related to that guy saying this:
Quote:
"And Tony, you know if it was left to me, I would raise the prices even further."

Read more: http://www.ps3news.com/General-Off-Topic/activisions-kotick-id-raise-game-prices-even-more/#ixzz1oaEm3Imv

Which is another reason people are automatically against DLC on the very mention.

And it's not a case of "if you don't think there's enough content don't buy it" sort of thing. It's a case of you buy a game and months later there's DLC, that if you don't have causes you to be fragmented from the rest of the community that does buy it. I'm tired of those "don't like it don't buy it arguments" because that doesn't solve the problem of people being charged for things that used to be entirely free. COD4 saw the PC get it's last free map packs. All FPS map packs should be entirely free, that's what people expect. You buy their game they reward you later down the line or hook you back in with updates and goodies. Now they hype a set of maps, hock them to you at a 1/3 of the game cost and they generally turn out to be lacklustre (how much of that is people being pissed off because they just realised they paid 1/3 of the cost of the new game for 4 measly maps) And Battlefield is my main point of contention here. Within a year of the games release there's going to be enough map packs to cost the same as the game. And again, there's the "dont like it dont buy it" argument I hear creeping in from the sidelines and I'm about to kick it back out of touch, because who knew when they bought BF3 for £39.99 that there would be a map pack out a month later for £11.99? And then another 5 months later for £11.99 (presumably) and then a couple of months after that, another one for the same cost? Who knew that? Little late to inform your decision based on these things if you don't know about it and if you don't have them the quality of your game is now diminished.

The videogame industry is the largest and most profitable entertainment industry in the world, surpassing music and movies, and that's Pre-DLC. The argument on cost is just rubbish. Do I think they should swallow the costs for certain things instead of passing them onto loyal fans? Yes. Do I think that's fair? You betcha! Who pays their wages as it is? Us!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeio View Post

What the heck? What's with the arbitrary 6 month mark? So they're supposed to fire all that staff for 6 months till you're ok with them making new stuff?

What? No. The development team generally starts work on another title, or works on patches and DLC (or, as it used to be, an expansion). You think they're just going to fire a load of staff because one game ends production? Right now key guys from DICE will be working on the MoH team, etc.
Edited by Rubers - 3/8/12 at 6:41pm
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post #65 of 184
That's why I dont buy dlc, UNLESS it's super duper cheap......like less than a dollar.
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post #66 of 184
I don't think this changes anything. It will not get enough press to be an issue for BioWare and so what if the DLC is already on the initial installation?

All they need to do is move the files on their server so it's not on your drive. Doesn't change a thing.
 
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post #67 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akheton View Post

Lying to and taking advantage of your customers? It's almost as though Bioware were owned by EA or something. Oh wait, they are. Can't wait until Battlefield 4 comes out and every single gun in the game has to be purchased as DLC.

And you have to play at least 10 hours for each dlc weapon you bought before you can access them. LOL
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post #68 of 184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

I think you're in the wrong thread, this one is about DLC, not DRM.
As projects near completion certain parts of the staff may have less work on their plate (one example being concept artists, and designers), should those folks sit around idle until after day 1, or get a head-start on the DLC so that they customer can have more content sooner? And some food for thought, will more people be playing ME3 one the first week it ships, or 6 months after it ships? Probably more on the first week. The sooner you release DLC, the more people will download it, and that increases profit, and means more of your consumers will get to enjoy that extra content.
As the years go by here on OCN, I see so many threads in which gamers rage about game development decisions they cannot understand. I was in a similar position before I was in the industry, I thought many companies were just evil and cared only about money. In the end money is one main goal, of course. Without that money they couldn't make the next game they wanted to make, or continue employing the staff of 200 that just made the last game. But realize this, in order to get the most money they have to make the games people want the most. Games are a "want", not a "need", nobody is obligated to buy the games they make, so they had better make something people will want and like. You can damn well bet they're trying to make the best game they possibly can given their time and budget constraints.

That's not what happened in the this case. Leaked scripts show that this was planned from the beginning. These files showing up on the disk are further evidence to that fact regardless of whether or not that part of the game was "completed" prior to going gold.

In order to make "lost money" you sell the game you just made, when the game has gone gold the 200 plus employees can either work on patches or START WORK ON THE NEXT GAME. I know what your referring to with this whole creative artists don't have anything to do after the game goes gold. Frankly that's a load of crap, why doesn't EA wan't them working on coming up with new IP's? EA saying that their just going to lay off their whole studio after releasing a game is a blatant lie.

Budget constraints are a non-issue here. Mass Effect 1 gave me 60 hours game-play without DLC and it was a hell of a lot more enjoyable than ME2 or 3. ME2 was empty of content compared to ME1 and ME3 is just more of the same.

No body is obligated to buy these games, and I certainly won't be. However, the fact remains that Bioware is giving us half the game compared to ME1. How do you explain that given that they have far greater a budget than before?
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post #69 of 184
Excuse me if I'm wrong here, but as far as I can tell, all we can see is that there are files in the game package of the the original ME3 game... but nothing here saying that for sure, these files included are 100% complete for the Prothean squad-mate. Is everyone complaining about this certain that the Prothean was finished in time for certification? Nothing in the blogger's post shows what is included AFTER purchasing the DLC.

Let's talk about something here. How do you know that it (From Ashes) wasn't just 80% complete (or something other than 100%), and as a result, the development team had to spend EXTRA time after their original timeline was over? If they were paid for their development until the moment the game entered certification phase, then they should be compensated for time spent afterwards... like overtime. EA will pay them regardless, but now EA needs to make that money back (and make a profit), hence the cost of it. Well, if the previous statements are similar to what happened, then now we get to how this is released as Day 1 content -- they've already stated it takes about 3 months for the game to pass certification and then get printed to discs. The previously developed incomplete content for the Prothean is included in the disc. Why not? That part is done, and it's less you'll have to download later. But now, they've been able to finish the Prothean DLC and make sure it's of the same quality (bug-wise) of the rest of the game as it was sent to certification, but the games are already past the point of modification, and as such, the completed portion of From Ashes now must be downloaded separately. Seeing as how they were working past their original timeline given by EA, they get paid extra, and EA needs to make a profit off of that extra pay.


Just to be clear, if this content was 100% completed before the game went into certification, then yes, it should be included at no extra cost, as it didn't cost EA anything extra to have Bioware provide it. In that case, I'd be angry too, and nobody has any right to tell you not to be (if you were duped into purchasing the Collector's Edition). However, if it wasn't (and I haven't seen anything indicating otherwise), then it deserves to cost extra. Just because things happened one way 10-15 years ago, doesn't mean things aren't allowed to change. Development costs were lower, game prices weren't. Game prices haven't risen in a long while. You can talk about buying older games for $40 all you want, doesn't mean anything if I can recall purchasing Starcraft 1 for $50 (which was originally rated M, in case you didn't know), or Warcraft 3 for $60.
post #70 of 184
Let me just remind everyone that DLC is the new term for expansion pack. IMO a lot of the ppl complaining about DLC here dont seem old enough to be familiar with the term.. expansion pack.
    
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