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[Dvice] 230% efficient LEDs seem to violate first law of thermodynamics - Page 6

post #51 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertymac93 View Post

Since when has light been measured in watts?

since light-bulbs were commercialized? When you go to home depot do you see 40, 60, 75, 120... watt bulbs, or do you see them rated as 100, 150, 200, 250, 300... lumens? thats what I thought
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post #52 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

The weren't measuring brightness (lumens), they were measuring energy in and energy out. Watts is a measure of energy.

I guess, the first sentence of the article just seemed weird to me:
Quote:
Physicists hellbent on destroying the universe have come up with a tiny LED that produces 69 picowatts of light while using just 30 picowatts of power.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

since light-bulbs were commercialized? When you go to home depot do you see 40, 60, 75, 120... watt bulbs, or do you see them rated as 100, 150, 200, 250, 300... lumens? thats what I thought

500
"light output: 630 lumens"
"energy used: 60 watts"

I fail to see where the package claims "60 watts of light" is produced.
Edited by qwertymac93 - 3/8/12 at 5:17pm
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post #53 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

More than 100% efficient is not possible (or not known to be). The less efficient a light is, the more energy that it takes in is converted to heat. At 0% efficiency, it would perfectly convert electricity to heat, as it approached 100% efficiency it begins to produce more light and less heat, and at 100% efficiency it would produce light, but no heat (other than heat produced by what the light hit). So if you could somehow pass 100% efficiency the light would actually absorb energy and make it non-existent. The energy has to go somewhere, so this isn't possible.

Are you saying the same as me ? That is, there must have been some mistake in the research ? Even if we can get the LED to be 100% efficient, at that level it will not go start cooling itself and absorbing the energy around it, so this is impossible. It could only be possible if the LED could go over 100% efficiency in the first place, so that it could start cooling itself down and absorbing energy. Did I understand it right ?
Edited by tpi2007 - 3/8/12 at 5:55pm
 
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post #54 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by test tube View Post

A Carnot cycle steam engine can be 200% efficient as long as your reservoir is less than absolute zero.
Sorry, I don't believe this. Someone has made an error somewhere if the number of electrons in does not correspond to the number of photons out at 100% or less.

a power cycle can(not) be 100% efficient if the cold sink is 0K.

n = 1 - (Tc/Th) where Tc = 0K, n = 1 or 100%

btw, is this related in anyway to the fact that heat increases electron mobility in semiconductors?
post #55 of 79
I wonder if they could be mass produced? Converting heat into photons could be a 'cool' way of increasing the efficiency of solar panels.
post #56 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post

Quote:
You guys all know that 69 picowatts of light is 6.9 x 10 to the -11 watts of light, right? It's the same power output as a single cell in your body. It's almost nonexistant. Bright LEDs can use about 3 watts, that's 3,000,000,000,000 picowatts!
Food for thought from the comment section at the source.
I doubt this tech will scale to usable levels anytime soon.

Now consider that a 1920x1080 monitor has 6 million (sub) pixels in it (24 million in a 4Kx2K). I don't think a 800x480 Super AMOLED Plus screen is going to use over a million watts. The amount of power these things use should already be measured in microwatts (if my assumptions are correct). That an LED exists that can run on 30 picowatts is very promising in terms of scaling the technology for higher resolution screens.
post #57 of 79
No one here has read the original article...
     
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post #58 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Still, this is huge. I was wondering when engineers would find a way to harness all that lost heat.

1. make a sheet of these led's hooked up to a single small solar panel.
2. face the sheet at a solar panel the size of it
3. place it in the desert
4. ???????????
5. PROFIT!
post #59 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by axipher View Post

I'm curious how bright these actually are though at such low power levels.

That is a picture of it switched on thumb.gif
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post #60 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertymac93 View Post

I guess, the first sentence of the article just seemed weird to me:
Quote:
Physicists hellbent on destroying the universe have come up with a tiny LED that produces 69 picowatts of light while using just 30 picowatts of power.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

"light output: 630 lumens"
"energy used: 60 watts"
I fail to see where the package claims "60 watts of light" is produced.

They are probably merely measuring the percent increase in light relative to what it should put out based on strictly the electrical energy input they provide (not pulled from the environment).

My guess is, they put it in a very cold environment, probably just a few degrees above its operating temperature and measured the amount of lumens. Then they put it in a warm environment and measured the increase and then factored how much initial input energy it would have taken to get to that lumen output of the hot environment whilst in the cold environment.

Just a guess though.
 
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