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Question About Water Loop and Pumps

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Sometime next month, I plan on setting up a single loop w/ a 280 and 360 rad. Seeing as I'm new at this and I want to be as prepared as possible, I've come up with a proposed idea as to what it might look like:
Res/Pump -> CPU -> 360 Rad -> GPU 1 -> GPU 2 -> 280 Rad -> Res/Pump

I've included a picture of the proposed idea where I snapped a shot of the inside of the case with my phone and messed with it in MS Paint (blue lines are going to the block and pink is going away). Also note that when I uploaded the image, the top part of it was cropped off. There is supposed to be a 280 Rad with 2 fans blowing outward.



What I was wondering is if I have all those fans blowing out, would that overheat the motherboard components too much? It's not pictured, but I have a RAM cooling fan as well and I wouldn't be against getting a bigger pump and full cover water block for the mobo if that would help.

My current list of parts that I've decided on (all subject to change if needed):

CPU Block: EK - Supreme HF
GPU Blocks: EK - FC570 GTX SE w/ Cross SLI Danger Den fittings
Radiators: Black Ice GTS 280 Rad / EK - Coolstream XTX 360 Rad
Res / Pump: EK - Reservoir w/ DCP 4.0 Pump*

*I'm also worried that the pump won't provide enough head pressure to achieve the optimal flow rate of 1.0 GPM (found an old thread written by charliehorse55). According to the guide and if I were to use the maximum amount of tubing that I plan on purchasing (3 meters) I came up with 4.65 PSI needed to achieve the desired head pressure and the DCP 4.0 only puts out 3.83 PSI at 1.0 GPM.

Now the thing that also confuses me is the GPU restrictions. According to the thread it's 0.9 PSI per card, but I found another thread that mentions something about dividing the 0.9 PSI by how many cards you're running in a parallel setup, which I believe I am. Now, do I add that number onto the 0.9 per card, or is it just the quotient, which would be 0.45 in this case, as I only plan on running two cards.

/sigh... Any help on either subject would be VERY much appreciated.
Edited by Big Shabazz - 3/10/12 at 9:57am
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post #2 of 17
I usually try to avoid a negative pressure in the case myself. It sucks in dust.
I cant quite see it on your pic, looks like the 280 rad is mounted horizontally on top?
When I fit a rad like that I usually have the fans blowing down into the case.
Yeh I know, hot air rises so the top fan should exhaust right? Well, in the absence of any airflow hot air rises. Add even a very slow fan blowing down and that tendency for hot air to rise is completely negated. Never mind with a pair of 140s.

The heat from the water is blown from the rad into the case if the fans blow down? True, but put your hand into the airflow, feel how cool it is. The heat is well spread out in a large volume of constantly flowing air. And having that downward airflow does a wonderful job of cooling your mobos power input areas, heatsinks, top of your top GFX card, and the RAM, removing the need for a small and often noisy RAM cooling fan.
Also its easier to clean dust build up out of the top of the rad than bottom, inside the case.
And if your using sleeve bearing fans then they should last longer in a horizontal mounting if they are blowing down rather than up.

Just my 2 groats worth, though it is based on having down this several times.
Edited by DiHyMo - 3/10/12 at 12:38am
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post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
Yeah sorry about that, imgur cropped the top of my pic off. That would be a 280 Rad up top, yes.

But as far as those fans blowing up or down do you notice a difference in overall temps when you do that? Like, what is the difference of the CPU say, when the fans are blowing in either direction? And the ambient?
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post #4 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shabazz View Post

Yeah sorry about that, imgur cropped the top of my pic off. That would be a 280 Rad up top, yes.
But as far as those fans blowing up or down do you notice a difference in overall temps when you do that? Like, what is the difference of the CPU say, when the fans are blowing in either direction? And the ambient?

You 'might' get a CPU temp rise of 1 or 2 degrees under load by blowing down rather than up. Or you might not. Depends on fan speed, how hard your system is working, how your other fans are oriented, how much rad you have in total (you have plenty).
I have read of others claiming to see bigger CPU temp difference by blowing down from above, but thats not my experience.
The temp of the areas around the CPU, mosfet heatsinks etc will definitely be lower by blowing down over them, probably by as much as several degrees. Most dont measure these temps, just fixate on CPU temp. But your mobo needs love too smile.gif

Should mention that GTS 280 on top will require decent fan speed cos of its high fin density. Last time I used a GTS(240) mounted like that I had 2000rpm fans on both sides of it. You will need 2000 RPM if you have only 2 fans on it. Is there a reason you selected that rad for that location? Maybe thickness? How noise averse are you re: fan speed?
Personally I've avoided 140/280 rads simply cos the range of 140mm fans are far less than 120mm. There is a vast range of 120mm fans, something to suit any situation.

Not sure what you mean by ambient. You mean inside the case? Definitely lower temp in the area above top GFX card, which is where the mobo wants to be cool.
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post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiHyMo View Post

You 'might' get a CPU temp rise of 1 or 2 degrees under load by blowing down rather than up. Or you might not. Depends on fan speed, how hard your system is working, how your other fans are oriented, how much rad you have in total (you have plenty).
I have read of others claiming to see bigger CPU temp difference by blowing down from above, but thats not my experience.
The temp of the areas around the CPU, mosfet heatsinks etc will definitely be lower by blowing down over them, probably by as much as several degrees. Most dont measure these temps, just fixate on CPU temp. But your mobo needs love too smile.gif
Should mention that GTS 280 on top will require decent fan speed cos of its high fin density. Last time I used a GTS(240) mounted like that I had 2000rpm fans on both sides of it. You will need 2000 RPM if you have only 2 fans on it. Is there a reason you selected that rad for that location? Maybe thickness? How noise averse are you re: fan speed?
Personally I've avoided 140/280 rads simply cos the range of 140mm fans are far less than 120mm. There is a vast range of 120mm fans, something to suit any situation.
Not sure what you mean by ambient. You mean inside the case? Definitely lower temp in the area above top GFX card, which is where the mobo wants to be cool.

Yeah, I picked the stealth because of height restriction. Initially I wanted to do push/pull with 4 fans, but i think I would have been bumping into the motherboard. And the fans that I picked out for the build are 1500 max, but produce about 96.5 CFM. I would do another 360 or something up top, but I would require a new top panel for the case, which I could get, but I kinda want to see if I can get this to work.
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post #6 of 17
Yeah good on ya, I like to 'do it and see', great way to learn from experience.

CFM is important, but static pressure moreso when blowing through a rad, particularly a high fin density rad.

Think about airflow. With all those fans exhausting... can they get good airflow? With only a single 120 blowing in? Certainly they will if you have the side off your case. But with the case closed up the airflow through the rads will be reduced.

Have fun with your project smile.gif
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post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
Okay, so I've doing some more reading and i found that I guess it's a matter of how high the FPI is on the radiator which determines whether it'd be better to focus on either the static pressure or CFM. Now the question I have which I can't seem to find the answer to elsewhere, is if it's better to have a higher FPI in a radiator? Because the Black Ice 280 rad has 30 FPI and the EK-Coolstream 360 has only 11.

And what kind of numbers am I looking for as far as air pressure goes at that point?

Thank you very much btw for answering all my questions.
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post #8 of 17
Depends on your priorities/needs.
Hardcore cooling/to hell with the noise---Highest fin density you can get and some 38mm thick 5000 RPM howlers.
Want it to run quite cool but really dont want it abusing my sensitive shell-like ears----Low FPI and high grade 1000-1200 RPM fans.
Such things are of course always a trade off.

Fans ideally will suit the rad, no 800 RPM fans on a Black Ice GTX or high speed deltas on an RX.

If you will be happy with nice cool CPU temps, not trying to get as cool as the laws of physics will allow, then I definitely recomend low FPI rads. Trade off there is they tend to be a lot thicker, like the very nice EK 360 you listed. Have you considered mounting a rad externally on top of the case?

Personally I tend toward 7 to 11 FPI rads for most rigs, my goal being much better cooling than stock/air in a PC that is reasonablly overclocked and sits on the desk being nice and quiet for everyday use.
This requires sufficient rad to allow enough heat dissapation capacity with the lower RPM fans. A 280/240 plus a 360 is certainly enough for most systems/needs.

A good number to look for with regards to pressure for high FPI rads is 38, as in 38mm thick fans.
Seriously, I dont bother with numbers too much, particularly when its the manufacturers numbers. I dont mean ignore them by any means, but i go with some good ol' common sense and you learn with each build.

I highly recomend Scythe GT AP 14s 1450 RPM for that EK rad, although there are many fans that will do a good job.
Edited by DiHyMo - 3/11/12 at 12:05am
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post #9 of 17
Glad to know you liked my pump thread!

To answer your question, you divide the pressure drop of 1 card by the number of cards you are going to have in parallel. So, with your example I would divide 0.9 by 2 and get 0.45 total pressure drop for both GPUs.

When placing your fans, it is key to remember that once air has gone through a radiator it is too warm for further cooling. All radiators in your case should either be intake or exhaust. Also, remember that a fan pushing through a radiator moves about 2/3 of the air as a fan without that restriction.
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post #10 of 17
Thread Starter 
Here's a current list of what I have picked out for the loop to this point:

lCNM9.jpg

From what I read about low FPI radiators, such as the 360, higher CFM is needed, so I picked the Cooler Master Sickleflows because it says it produces about 69.69 CFM and 19 db-A of noise.

For the 140s I picked the Aerocool (before reading that higher FPI requires more static air pressure than CFM) which, according to the specs on the page, produces 1.069 mm-H2O. I don't know if this is any good or not :\

Also, after doing some searching I found one website that still sells the 3 x 120mm top panel for the PC-A77F. Thinking maybe next week if they're still in stock after I get paid I could pick one of those up instead and just get another low FPI 360 to have on the top.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliehorse55 View Post

Glad to know you liked my pump thread!
To answer your question, you divide the pressure drop of 1 card by the number of cards you are going to have in parallel. So, with your example I would divide 0.9 by 2 and get 0.45 total pressure drop for both GPUs.
When placing your fans, it is key to remember that once air has gone through a radiator it is too warm for further cooling. All radiators in your case should either be intake or exhaust. Also, remember that a fan pushing through a radiator moves about 2/3 of the air as a fan without that restriction.

So as far as the 360 in the front goes, would it be better to do the same thing with the 280 and just have one set of fans blowing back into the case? And I did like your pump thread very much charliehorse thumb.gif I'm just really glad I found it before I bought a weak pump and started kicking myself afterward.

P.S. As this is my first WC loop, I was also wondering if anyone knows if I'm missing anything on the list up to this point. Every radiator and water block comes with 1/2" ID - 5/8" OD compression fittings or barbs. Pumps added to the reservoir (DCP-4.0). Just wondering if there's anything else I need to worry about getting up to this point.
Edited by Big Shabazz - 3/11/12 at 10:23am
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