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Ubuntu... garbage or not? - Page 16

Poll Results: Is Ubuntu junk?

 
  • 31% (61)
    Yes
  • 68% (133)
    No
194 Total Votes  
post #151 of 294
It was built off RHEL and Cent tongue.gif

But yeah, I can tell it took ages LOL.
post #152 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

Well that's a silly thing to say because without developers and users, Linux literally wouldn't exist. In fact no software would ever exist.
Also Linux devs and users can be perfectly down to earth if you don't join Linux forums and open with a page long rant about how crap it is and how much more you prefer Windows (as you had done on here). You reap what you sow wink.gif
The last part is just pure lols though. Why do you even come in here when you clearly hate Linux so much?

You seem to think I hate linux, which shows your overly emotional attachment to the ecosystem. I don't hate linux, I am critical of its short commings. These same short comming are the same things users complain about.

Honestly, the real problem with linux can be summed up as such.

Its not ready for everyday users until it can ship without a command line, and frankly, it can't as it stands. The lists of problems with linux, mostly configuration and user interaction, are a mile long. Most of this issue stems from the fact the linux developers for the most part, have no clue how to properly design ui. Bottom line. This will continue to be a pervasive problem with adoption until linux devs stop embracing the command line like the holy grail.

Almost no one wants to use the CLI, its why they invented the GUI in the first place. Being critical of the short comings of linux, in the face of the proverbial "why won't the majority of people use linux" isn't hating on linux. you either confront the short comings of the OS, or you stop asking why linux market share has fallen dramatically on the desk top in the last few years. I remember when linux marketshare was higher, back in the late 1990's.

To push back to the op's question, what would mean garbage ? base configuration, software stack, abi/api stability, What defines garbage. Useability ?

Maybe linux isn't what your looking for, maybes its AROS, Haiku, BSD etc. The world of FOSS is greater and more varied then Linux, and the nix and nix like OS spectrum is fairy large. So, while some claim this is a "linux" forums, its really a FOSS OS forum. Having debates about the merits of each OS and its relevant strengths and weakness's isn't "hating" its about have frank discussion.
post #153 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

You seem to think I hate linux, which shows your overly emotional attachment to the ecosystem.
Oh do grow up.
I couldn't give a rats behind whether you nor anyone else like Linux. I'm just making an observation that every single post of yours is moaning (and usually complaints based on misinformation)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

I don't hate linux, I am critical of its short commings. These same short comming are the same things users complain about.
Honestly, the real problem with linux can be summed up as such.
Its not ready for everyday users until it can ship without a command line, and frankly, it can't as it stands.
Windows cannot ship without a command line, so by your logic, Windows isn't desktop ready either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

The lists of problems with linux, mostly configuration and user interaction, are a mile long. Most of this issue stems from the fact the linux developers for the most part, have no clue how to properly design ui. Bottom line. This will continue to be a pervasive problem with adoption until linux devs stop embracing the command line like the holy grail.
I agree with your observation but not with your conclusion.

The CLI has absolutely nothing to do with GUI design as a desktop application can easily facilitate both (and in fact, most do). The problem with GUI design is as simple as developers not being designers. But that goes back to my point about corperate financial backing as without that, you cannot employ designers to design (like MS and Apple do), so you're left with developers designing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Almost no one wants to use the CLI, its why they invented the GUI in the first place.
You have absolutely no idea about the history of computers if you truely belive that.
GUIs are better than CLI for some things. CLI is better than GUIs for other things. Even Microsoft knows this because they've been continually releasing refined command shells of their own (Windows Powershell, CLI .NET APIs, GUI-less Windows Server editions, etc).

I really do with people would quit the whole GUI vs CLI nonsense because /both/ are required for a usable modern OS. To argue that one is definitely better than the other is nothing short of ignorant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Being critical of the short comings of linux, in the face of the proverbial "why won't the majority of people use linux" isn't hating on linux. you either confront the short comings of the OS, or you stop asking why linux market share has fallen dramatically on the desk top in the last few years. I remember when linux marketshare was higher, back in the late 1990's.
Fair enough. However joining a Linux forum to slag off Linux in every single post is a sign of being a hater. I've been critical of Linux too, but it's been more of a balanced opinion as I can acknowledge both the positives and negatives, which you cannot. To be frank, I'm bored of your blind rage: it's unbalanced and often completely ignorant (as demonstrated with the CLI rant).

So prove you're not a hater and say something positive about Linux. A 100% positive comment with no conditions attached. Go on, I dare you tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

To push back to the op's question, what would mean garbage ? base configuration, software stack, abi/api stability, What defines garbage. Useability ?
Maybe linux isn't what your looking for, maybes its AROS, Haiku, BSD etc. The world of FOSS is greater and more varied then Linux, and the nix and nix like OS spectrum is fairy large. So, while some claim this is a "linux" forums, its really a FOSS OS forum. Having debates about the merits of each OS and its relevant strengths and weakness's isn't "hating" its about have frank discussion.
That's the first thing you've posted which I'm 100% behind. There is a whole world outside of the big 3 OSs.

(Also, I missed MorphOS off my previous list lol)
post #154 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

Oh do grow up.
I couldn't give a rats behind whether you nor anyone else like Linux. I'm just making an observation that every single post of yours is moaning (and usually complaints based on misinformation)

Didn't read the read of the posts, but I do agree with the above. Most of the time I see you posting it's pretty much always ranting/moaning.

Just an observation.
post #155 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

Oh do grow up.
I couldn't give a rats behind whether you nor anyone else like Linux. I'm just making an observation that every single post of yours is moaning (and usually complaints based on misinformation)
Windows cannot ship without a command line, so by your logic, Windows isn't desktop ready either.
I agree with your observation but not with your conclusion.

Windows can ship without a command line, they include it becuase some people asked for the feature. The average windows users can go his whole life without ever opening the command line. Because Windows put in allot of careful usability study's to determine best practice. though since Win vista, some stuff is a absolute pain to deal with.
Quote:
The CLI has absolutely nothing to do with GUI design as a desktop application can easily facilitate both (and in fact, most do). The problem with GUI design is as simple as developers not being designers. But that goes back to my point about corperate financial backing as without that, you cannot employ designers to design (like MS and Apple do), so you're left with developers designing.

No, your missing my point, again in a obvious manner. Strip the CLI out of the system, and confront the problem. The CLI has become a crutch, and its hurting linux desktop uptake. Becuase if the gui doesn't offer the rudimentary function, somebody will be like, but they could just

Bash
sudo $get /if ?who --really //care ..in 34/divide-by-zero --some odd langauge
Quote:
You have absolutely no idea about the history of computers if you truely belive that.
GUIs are better than CLI for some things. CLI is better than GUIs for other things. Even Microsoft knows this because they've been continually releasing refined command shells of their own (Windows Powershell, CLI .NET APIs, GUI-less Windows Server editions, etc).

Most USERS HATE TEXT BASED COMPUTING
Quote:
I really do with people would quit the whole GUI vs CLI nonsense because /both/ are required for a usable modern OS. To argue that one is definitely better than the other is nothing short of ignorant.
Fair enough. However joining a Linux forum to slag off Linux in every single post is a sign of being a hater. I've been critical of Linux too, but it's been more of a balanced opinion as I can acknowledge both the positives and negatives, which you cannot. To be frank, I'm bored of your blind rage: it's unbalanced and often completely ignorant (as demonstrated with the CLI rant).

CLI is not required on most any commercial OS product outside of sys administration, and thats a dubious edge case.
Quote:
So prove you're not a hater and say something positive about Linux. A 100% positive comment with no conditions attached. Go on, I dare you tongue.gif

I don't feel 100% fuzzy about anything. So I will not participate in your smoke blowing fiasco. I don't need to validate my well formed opinion, having been a Linux user for sometime. Theres plenty of good things about the linux ecosystem, most of the thing I might view as positives, are perceived as negatives by others. Its all about your personal use case. But remember, you and I are minority users, we are the exception, not the rule.
Quote:
That's the first thing you've posted which I'm 100% behind. There is a whole world outside of the big 3 OSs.
(Also, I missed MorphOS off my previous list lol)


That proves just how narrow your view is, I am not out to re-enforce your ideas, and if you are constantly seeking others who share only your views, this would be your problem. The internet has made it to easy to not challenge ones own views. Just find a social group you agree with and become more feverent. Its called radicalism when it involves religion.

I'd prefer to just make my case, and give my opinion. If you can find anywhere in any of my posts in this thread, where I called Ubuntu garbage, be my guest.The OP still has yet to define what he wants in his OS, and that really matters.
post #156 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

The OP still has yet to define what he wants in his OS, and that really matters.

The OP isn't asking for help in choosing a distro/OS. He is an avid Linux user. Had you read the OP and not just the title you'd know what the question is.

Which is,

It seems that most people around here always suggest Ubuntu without hesitation. And the more advanced users tend to despise it and not recommend it.

He's really only asking for opinions and just to get an idea of why.
post #157 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

The OP isn't asking for help in choosing a distro/OS. He is an avid Linux user. Had you read the OP and not just the title you'd know what the question is.
Which is,
It seems that most people around here always suggest Ubuntu without hesitation. And the more advanced users tend to despise it and not recommend it.
He's really only asking for opinions and just to get an idea of why.

But thats not really the question is it. The question is is Ubuntu garbage, and the answer is, what is your usage case for making that assesment. So, to one person it may be total crap, becuase they hate the desktop environment, one person make like the DE, and the list goes on.

when you ask a subjective question, you can't define the answer becuase it has no boundary.

Essentially, you can't prove the existence of a negative statement.

these conversations are inherntly flawed, becuase they don't ask the right question.

Which operating system best fits "insert needs/wants/preference".
post #158 of 294
I could go on to break down your post, section by section, but most of it transparently exposes your complete lack of knowledge. So instead I'll summarise:

If Windows didn't ship CLI then all sorts would break. Even with Windows, a lot happens in the CLI that users do not realise. I've already evidenced this point and you completely ignored it. Same tired debate of us going round in circles and you screaming "la la la I'm not listening".

As for Linux, there is a GUI for pretty much everything. However techies give users advice on the CLI simply because it's easier to explain a text based interface over a text based communication (eg internet forums -> copy/paste fixes rather than time consuming directions and screenshots). As proof, give me 3 examples of a task that you think cannot be accomplished via GUI and I'll give you examples of GUI apps that can do it.

Finally, I'm not out for validation - if I was, I wouldn't repeatedly call you up on your ignorant drivel. And the reason why I can't respect your opinions is because they're based on fairy tails you dreamt up the last time bricked your server when playing "Mr Package Maintainer" for an OS you have zero experience on. You've said yourself that you've failed at Linux during every attempt yet strangely my technologically inept girlfriend manages just fine. So given the experience I've had and the complete and utter failure that you are on anything remotely non-Microsoft, I think I have some authority to point out when you're spouting horse manure.

Also please excuse the lack of subtlety in my language - I've given up being discrete with you given the accusations you readily make against me.
post #159 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

I could go on to break down your post, section by section, but most of it transparently exposes your complete lack of knowledge. So instead I'll summarise:
If Windows didn't ship CLI then all sorts would break. Even with Windows, a lot happens in the CLI that users do not realise. I've already evidenced this point and you completely ignored it. Same tired debate of us going round in circles and you screaming "la la la I'm not listening".
As for Linux, there is a GUI for pretty much everything. However techies give users advice on the CLI simply because it's easier to explain a text based interface over a text based communication (eg internet forums -> copy/paste fixes rather than time consuming directions and screenshots). As proof, give me 3 examples of a task that you think cannot be accomplished via GUI and I'll give you examples of GUI apps that can do it.
Finally, I'm not out for validation - if I was, I wouldn't repeatedly call you up on your ignorant drivel. And the reason why I can't respect your opinions is because they're based on fairy tails you dreamt up the last time bricked your server when playing "Mr Package Maintainer" for an OS you have zero experience on. You've said yourself that you've failed at Linux during every attempt yet strangely my technologically inept girlfriend manages just fine. So given the experience I've had and the complete and utter failure that you are on anything remotely non-Microsoft, I think I have some authority to point out when you're spouting horse manure.
Also please excuse the lack of subtlety in my language - I've given up being discrete with you given the accusations you readily make against me.

Get a clue

Its a Operating system, not a religion.


Its not "lalalala I'm not listening"

it's "lalalalala make a coherent point please"

Discrete ? your just Mr accusation around here.
Edited by SCollins - 3/15/12 at 8:24am
post #160 of 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Get a clue
Its a Operating system, not a religion.
Indeed. I'm as critical as the next person. You just miss that as you're too busy focusing on the good stuff we say and arguing that everyone is wrong because of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Its not "lalalala I'm not listening"
it's "lalalalala make a coherent point please"
Discrete ? your just Mr accusation around here.
lol


Anyway, clearly you're not going to answer my questions (re your claim that GUI cannot do xyz) because you know that I'll easily prove you wrong. So I'm throwing in the towel and getting back to my job.
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