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[Tech Eye] Intel's Ivy Bridge specs leaked - Page 6

post #51 of 97
Like others have said, the transistors are now smaller, which means there is less area to dissipate the heat. Also, it is still to be known how effective the tri-gate design is at dissipating heat to the exterior.

Also, don't forget, the kind of voltages you are seeing being applied in the region of 1.3 v is what we've been using since 65 nm (at least, can't remeber what voltage 90 nm used), so it's no wonder that a CPU built with 22 nm is not going to handle that very well. I mean, I am running my Q9550 at 3.4 Ghz at the stock 1.2875 v.

The fact that they can't apparently overclock the CPU much more or sometimes not even to Sandy Bridge levels at a lower voltage is what should be worrying, right ?

Also, did anyone notice that Nvidia has removed the heatspreader from the GTX680 even though it is not even supposed to be the high end part ? They are now adopting AMD's approach, of what once used to be the norm, with that little tweak of having a metal plate around the edges of the chip's PCB to protect it.

Maybe as the process gets smaller Intel will have to do the same.

Anyway, this is all speculation, let's wait and see how the retail units fare.

Although I just thought of this comparison: when I had 4 GB of RAM (2 x 2) on my motherboard, the DIMMS didn't get much more than warm, but when I upgraded to 8 GB, and therefore filled all the memory slots, the sticks started getting hot. The clearance between each pair of DIMMS when all slots are filled is almost non-existant when you have DIMMS with aluminium coolers (and even if they don't, they are closer together than when they are spaced apart using just one DIMM per channel), so even though then can dissipate heat through the heatsinks, there is less air flowing in the middle of them. And this is how tri-gate transisitors are, right ?

228
Edited by tpi2007 - 3/12/12 at 7:51pm
 
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post #52 of 97
Maybe it's safe at 90+ cool.gif I personally probably won't upgrade though, as sandy bridge is fine right now, until the new consoles come out there won't be much progress in games anyway. Either that or wait until Haswell is almost out and buy a binned 3770K.
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post #53 of 97
That first source is crap imho...

Second, I really dont like putting anyone down, but I would rather get my data from a better source than this.

They are testing it with a TRUE, with monitoring software that does not support it (see TJmax @105c).

However, I do not doubt that this chip may run hot. More transistors on a smaller die should equal more heat due to the density of the transistors, unless it has SIGNIFICANTLY less leakage, no?. Do not be surprised those temps drop when a new version of Coretemp is released. I would guess the TJmaxx should be anywhere between 80c-95c (can anyone confirm?).

Additionally, should these safe voltage ranges not be dropping with each node? How is it that 1.4-1.45v was the recommended max for 45nm, and many people still run close to this on 32nm; and now some speculate that 22nm can be run on the same as 32nm?
post #54 of 97
mmm i do need a new heater for winter biggrin.gif
post #55 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior1986 View Post

While there's always a little variance, if this is the sort of range we can expect with IB, I'll pass.

The variance is pretty big across most architectures, and you can't guess at a range with only one example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior1986 View Post

Don't want to take a pricy gamble on getting a bum chip.

It's always a gamble, virtually regardless of architecture or chip maker.
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post #56 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghoxt View Post

Nvidia is taking a beating at the high end now. I don't know if they can afford to just edge out the 7970. AMD you know isn't just sitting still and waiting on Nvidia. This is just AMD's first gen for the 7900 series, and not to put words into your mouth but you don't think they may have a counter to every Nvidia move planned?
What if AMD drops the hammer on a fully tweaked 79XX sooner than later, as you already know the 7970 card has headroom all to hell. My opinion is that Nvidia better "Drop the hammer" to capture all the sales they can get. It's tit for tat, and right now they are behind.
For me personally, the timing is almost perfect, just waiting on either 3770K, or an unlikely unlocked Xeon (lol i know). biggrin.gif
Moria is almost here! (proposed name of my pending build)

Exactly, I already read an article about the speculation over a quick refresh of the 79xx for when the real Kepler card comes out.

OT: Seeing how much the 22nm process did for the 7xxx series of AMD cards, I just can't see how a 22nm refresh of the i7 could run that hot...
Edited by Exostenza - 3/12/12 at 8:25pm
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post #57 of 97
The app is clearly mistaken, I say.

The TJ max of a 2500K is only 72.6c...

EDIT: Although, that puts my idle at 0c... wheee.gif
Edited by Rezard - 3/12/12 at 8:26pm
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post #58 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Like others have said, the transistors are now smaller, which means there is less area to dissipate the heat. Also, it is still to be known how effective the tri-gate design is at dissipating heat to the exterior.
Also, don't forget, the kind of voltages you are seeing being applied in the region of 1.3 v is what we've been using since 65 nm (at least, can't remeber what voltage 90 nm used), so it's no wonder that a CPU built with 22 nm is not going to handle that very well. I mean, I am running my Q9550 at 3.4 Ghz at the stock 1.2875 v.
The fact that they can't apparently overclock the CPU much more or sometimes not even to Sandy Bridge levels at a lower voltage is what should be worrying, right ?
Also, did anyone notice that Nvidia has removed the heatspreader from the GTX680 even though it is not even supposed to be the high end part ? They are now adopting AMD's approach, of what once used to be the norm, with that little tweak of having a metal plate around the edges of the chip's PCB to protect it.
Maybe as the process gets smaller Intel will have to do the same.
Anyway, this is all speculation, let's wait and see how the retail units fare.
Although I just thought of this comparison: when I had 4 GB of RAM (2 x 2) on my motherboard, the DIMMS didn't get much more than warm, but when I upgraded to 8 GB, and therefore filled all the memory slots, the sticks started getting hot. The clearance between each pair of DIMMS when all slots are filled is almost non-existant when you have DIMMS with aluminium coolers (and even if they don't, they are closer together than when they are spaced apart using just one DIMM per channel), so even though then can dissipate heat through the heatsinks, there is less air flowing in the middle of them. And this is how tri-gate transisitors are, right ?
228

Transistor, they hold a certain quantity of current and the gate is holding it with a smaller amount of current ie x100 to x1000 less if not lesser. That very little amount of current closing the gate generate heat when the gate is opened. Smaller is the gate, less current you need to close/open. Add to that 3D gate, it's actually improving the effectiveness of the gate.

I've speak with a physician at the University of Montreal. He was on his way to acquire his Ph.D. His work was to find a better way to create the integrated circuit in the processor. How they are able to make such small transistors/circuit is to grave on the material (by exposing it to the light) levels by levels. So every transistors are actually within the material and they will always be... It's not just a random transistor and if you put another close to it, it's going to heat more...

We don't even know if the program is calibrated or accurately reading the processor temperature. I kind of doubt this can hit 100+C. Max Tjunc is 99C with is 5C less than core temperature...! Thus,I highly doubt this is what to be expected.
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post #59 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exostenza View Post

Exactly, I already read an article about the speculation over a quick refresh of the 79xx for when the real Kepler card comes out.
OT: Seeing how much the 22nm process did for the 7xxx series of AMD cards, I just can't see how a 22nm refresh of the i7 could run that hot...

AMD's new cards and Nvidia's future cards are on a 28 nm process, not 22 nm, besides they are using different technology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a nickname View Post

Transistor, they hold a certain quantity of current and the gate is holding it with a smaller amount of current ie x100 to x1000 less if not lesser. That very little amount of current closing the gate generate heat when the gate is opened. Smaller is the gate, less current you need to close/open. Add to that 3D gate, it's actually improving the effectiveness of the gate.
I've speak with a physician at the University of Montreal. He was on his way to acquire his Ph.D. His work was to find a better way to create the integrated circuit in the processor. How they are able to make such small transistors/circuit is to grave on the material (by exposing it to the light) levels by levels. So every transistors are actually within the material and they will always be... It's not just a random transistor and if you put another close to it, it's going to heat more...
We don't even know if the program is calibrated or accurately reading the processor temperature. I kind of doubt this can hit 100+C. Max Tjunc is 99C with is 5C less than core temperature...! Thus,I highly doubt this is what to be expected.

Hmm, thanks for the explanation!

Let's see how the retail products behave. I found it interesting that Anand didn't provide any overclocking or temperature values in his preview though, maybe it was because of the BIOS not being final and / or the software not being ready.
 
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post #60 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post

As I said in another thread discussing this, the guy at XS said that his CPU cooler wasn't hot to the touch. The CPU cooler (True spirit 140) that was sitting on a claimed 100c+ processor.....

why would the cooler have to be hot to the touch if the CPU is @ 100C?

Core temps and the heat that the chip outputs are two completely different things.
 
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