Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Power Supplies › 650W Seasonic PSU okay for Crossfire 6970's?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

650W Seasonic PSU okay for Crossfire 6970's? - Page 5

post #41 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuashke View Post

ya its perfectly fine, most decent psus have components rated far beyond their rated wattage (check some HS or TPU reviews, they go through it pretty well)

If you read quality reviews like Jonnys or HardwareSecrets most quality brands your statement is true.
Main Rig
(21 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k @ 4.5ghz 24/7 MSI P67 GD55 Gigabyte GTX 1070 2x4GB Corsair Vengeance Blue 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Crucial M4 128GB, 3TB HDD, 1TB HDD Samsung DVD-RW SATA Windows 10 64bit Hanns G 23" 1080p 60Hz 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Dell S2716DG 1440P 144hz Gsync TN Hanns G 23" 1080p 60Hz Epson Pro Cinema 9500UB 1080p Projector (110") Razer Black Widow Ultimate BF3 Edition (orange) 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair TX750 Corsair 400R Steelseries Rival Steelseries QCK+ 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Asus Xonar DG Astro A40 V Moda Crossfade LP Logitech Z5300 
Audio
Denon 1909 + 7.1 infinity surround 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
A6 3420 HD 6520G 8GB 500GB 5400RPM 
MonitorKeyboard
15.6" 1366x768 Generic with numberpad 
  hide details  
Reply
Main Rig
(21 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k @ 4.5ghz 24/7 MSI P67 GD55 Gigabyte GTX 1070 2x4GB Corsair Vengeance Blue 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Crucial M4 128GB, 3TB HDD, 1TB HDD Samsung DVD-RW SATA Windows 10 64bit Hanns G 23" 1080p 60Hz 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Dell S2716DG 1440P 144hz Gsync TN Hanns G 23" 1080p 60Hz Epson Pro Cinema 9500UB 1080p Projector (110") Razer Black Widow Ultimate BF3 Edition (orange) 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair TX750 Corsair 400R Steelseries Rival Steelseries QCK+ 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Asus Xonar DG Astro A40 V Moda Crossfade LP Logitech Z5300 
Audio
Denon 1909 + 7.1 infinity surround 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
A6 3420 HD 6520G 8GB 500GB 5400RPM 
MonitorKeyboard
15.6" 1366x768 Generic with numberpad 
  hide details  
Reply
post #42 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc1 View Post

Maybe: I bought my Signature just because I loved (and love) its build quality, but personally I'm not so leant towards naming Delta as the "number one" (I mean, the one and only, or by far: see my disappointment for the not-so-stellar HCP-850).
I suppose there's a healthy amount of subjectivity in my reasoning even though we're debating quality which should be a straight forward issue... I always loved the over engineered, over specced nature of Delta high ends, Signature, CP, HCP, are all units capable of outputting massive amounts of power(continuously) over what they're rated for, without any significant degradation in regard to relevant performance metrics(regulation, output quality)... the Signature 650 could have easily been an excellent 850W unit, but instead they chose to make it a brilliant 650W one.. anyone can see the value and confidence that design approach offers smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc1 View Post

Well, I have the very personal impression that this count cannot go on and on, however, I just want to point you out that the quoted Superflower platform should be Platinum units, not Gold ones, and IIRC noticeably more expensive than the smaller X-line units.
Efficiency is a secondary aspect when evaluating these units... it has no impact on hardware performance and should't be a relevant criteria for an enthusiast... the GK 550 and the X 560 are populating the same segment and they sell for similar prices(in EU at least).
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc1 View Post

As maybe I was able to said (my english proficiency isn't quite enough to such subtle discussions) I think that there isn't "a one and only best", and moreover that currently those advantages held by a few other units (over several Seasonic X-line PSUs) aren't (quantitatively) enough to name them "really" (substantially?) better, even if they are indeed objectively better (eventually, it's not a race, IMO).
I completely agree, that was entirely my point.
Also, your english is quite good. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc1 View Post

I've already wrote my thought on it, however, ideally for a gaming rig I would use a PSU which efficiency is near at top at the presumed gaming power level, not so far from its top at the presumed idling power level, and which has also a total power output capable of running 4 Prime95 (for a 2500K) and a multiGPU FurMark for at least 6hrs in an oc'ing condition.
But it's just my very personal opinion.
That's an excellent "very personal opinion".
Edited by Original Sin - 3/14/12 at 5:19am
post #43 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

even though we're debating quality which should be a straight forward issue

Haven't you ever read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"? rolleyes.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

Efficiency is a secondary aspect when evaluating these units...

Efficiency, as well as price, are IMO not secondary aspects, but key elements of the performance specifications of any project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

it has no impact on hardware performance

I don't agree, as efficiency IS an electrical performance: moreover, a more efficient unit has less wasted heat, so the unit works better and longer, even if in some hot box some units seem to not suffer higher temps. A more efficient unit, besides, is more economical to run, and can be more comfortable for our ears.

And maybe it's questionable how a 1% in ripple or noise, or 0.3% on 12V regulation, can impact the overall PC performance, I mean, if a 40mV ripple can trim down an overclock exploit, with reference to a 15mV one: if I may take the liberty of a joke, you can hand polish all the apple you sell, but will those apple become (just for the polishing) more delicious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

and should't be a relevant criteria for an enthusiast...

Those enthusiasts are a varied crowd, so this seems a rather gross generalization which you can't rely on.
You may give a look to how many thread on this forum (overclock.net) are dedicated to efficient or silent PSUs, but it's just an easy/simple example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

the GK 550 and the X 560 are populating the same segment and they sell for similar prices(in EU at least).

Well, price may vary, you know. Just to say, here in Italy the lowest (online) price I found for the X-560 is 117 euros (108 for the Corsair AX650!), the GK550 goes for at least 142 euros (166 on Amazon, while LZPs usually come to a price premium over it, where available).
If we take NewEgg for comparison, the X-560 comes for 125 USD, while the LZP for 150 USD (they don't carry Super Flower).

Obviously we can use different comparisons: a hasty search tells me that Amazon.de carry the Seasonic at 122, while the GK at 135 (geizhals.de gives the former at 112, the latter at 120), Amazon.co.uk offers the SS at 112, the GK at 139GBP (skinflint 102 GBP for the SS, 140 for the GK). And probably at your location is quite the contrary.

So generally speaking YMMV, but often the GK/LZP comes at premium over SS X: if I'm not wrong, currently the Seasonic X-series roughly fill the price gap between the Golden King and the Golden Green platforms (the P14XE, but also NZXT Hale90 and Kingwin LZG, a platform which is also very interesting) from SuperFlower; we can also say Seasonic doesn't have a counter-offer for the lower-wattage LZP/GK.

Eventually, perhaps I was too picky.

My thought is that the real manufacturing cost is no or little related to street prices, which are probably just a matter of market segmentation: sort of a commercial artifact; if it were so, probably the SS X isn't in the very same commercial league of the Lazer Platinum and its mates right now, and generally speaking "Platinum" units come at a premium over "Gold" ones, as it was for "Gold" units two years ago.
Maybe finally you are right: at least commercially, after less than three years the Seasonic X isn't (any more) the "best of the bests", and in that "second-tier" position, there is no comparable unit which "outclass" it.
post #44 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc1 
I don't agree, as efficiency IS an electrical performance: moreover, a more efficient unit has less wasted heat, so the unit works better and longer, even if in some hot box some units seem to not suffer higher temps. A more efficient unit, besides, is more economical to run, and can be more comfortable for our ears.

And maybe it's questionable how a 1% in ripple or noise, or 0.3% on 12V regulation, can impact the overall PC performance, I mean, if a 40mV ripple can trim down an overclock exploit, with reference to a 15mV one: if I may take the liberty of a joke, you can hand polish all the apple you sell, but will those apple become (just for the polishing) more delicious?
That's all fine and dandy but this is where theory and reality part.. efficiency has absolutely no impact on hardware performance.. as so, is a secondary criteria for the enthusiast crowd(those that actually know what they're doing and subsequently what to buy)... you can argue that efficiency might indirectly affect hardware performance due to the heat generated by the AC/DC conversion which could or might degrade the PSU performance .. but then you only need to take a look at what you claimed you own.. an Antec CP and an Antec Signature, both rather inefficient units compared to modern high ends but both of them displaying a superior temperature Delta and far superior electrical performance than most Gold units currently on the market... that alone invalidates your argument... and really, if efficiency was that important to you, why not buy a FSP Aurum instead of the Signature(for example)?.. High efficiency is desirable but not when it comes at the cost of electrical performance metrics such as VReg, ripple/noise suppression, and proper response to cross loading and transient loads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marc1 
Those enthusiasts are a varied crowd, so this seems a rather gross generalization which you can't rely on.
You may give a look to how many thread on this forum (overclock.net) are dedicated to efficient or silent PSUs, but it's just an easy/simple example.
...
Indeed easy, simple and wrong... I'm gonna bring back the Aurum example, I recall an X-Bit review which measured ~40 db at full load on an Aurum CM sample... high efficiency isn't a prerequisite nor a warranty for low noise output.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc1 
Well, price may vary, you know. Just to say, here in Italy the lowest (online) price I found for the X-560 is 117 euros (108 for the Corsair AX650!), the GK550 goes for at least 142 euros (166 on Amazon, while LZPs usually come to a price premium over it, where available).
If we take NewEgg for comparison, the X-560 comes for 125 USD, while the LZP for 150 USD (they don't carry Super Flower).

Obviously we can use different comparisons: a hasty search tells me that Amazon.de carry the Seasonic at 122, while the GK at 135 (geizhals.de gives the former at 112, the latter at 120), Amazon.co.uk offers the SS at 112, the GK at 139GBP (skinflint 102 GBP for the SS, 140 for the GK). And probably at your location is quite the contrary.

So generally speaking YMMV, but often the GK/LZP comes at premium over SS X: if I'm not wrong, currently the Seasonic X-series roughly fill the price gap between the Golden King and the Golden Green platforms (the P14XE, but also NZXT Hale90 and Kingwin LZG, a platform which is also very interesting) from SuperFlower; we can also say Seasonic doesn't have a counter-offer for the lower-wattage LZP/GK.

Eventually, perhaps I was too picky.
I just checked idealo.de and geizhals.at(with EU filter) and the price difference is around ~5 euros, that's not a premium wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by marc1 
My thought is that the real manufacturing cost is no or little related to street prices, which are probably just a matter of market segmentation: sort of a commercial artifact; if it were so, probably the SS X isn't in the very same commercial league of the Lazer Platinum and its mates right now, and generally speaking "Platinum" units come at a premium over "Gold" ones, as it was for "Gold" units two years ago.
Maybe finally you are right: at least commercially, after less than three years the Seasonic X isn't (any more) the "best of the bests", and in that "second-tier" position, there is no comparable unit which "outclass" it.
I'm having trouble following your reasoning.. I fail to see why you'd put the X-560 and the GK 550 in different market segments, they're perfectly comparable and they address the same type of buyer.. and at a less than marginal price difference the GK 550 indeed outclasses the X-560, there's not two ways about this.
Edited by Original Sin - 3/17/12 at 1:25pm
post #45 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

efficiency has absolutely no impact on hardware performance

Probably I was not able to let you fully understand my view: IMHO efficiency IS an independent performance in itself (as well as noise suppression, or any other else).
Whether or not it's related to other electrical performances is a further, different (and complex) matter.
If I can make a comparison, let's think to a race car. If a racing car sports an engine which consumes less petrol, it has more chance to win than a less efficient one but which is equivalent to the former in all other respects. Sometimes even with a slightly less performing engine, a racing car can be competitive (to win) due to a better power efficiency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

.. as so, is a secondary criteria for the enthusiast crowd(those that actually know what they're doing and subsequently what to buy)...

If those "enthusiasts" are actually those which actually know what they're doing, then I have some doubt that maybe you are missing a bit right this point (I say so as you seem so convinced that efficiency is always just a secondary criterion), and the point is "who they are" and "what they know".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

you can argue that efficiency might indirectly affect hardware performance due to the heat generated by the AC/DC conversion which could or might degrade the PSU performance
.. but then you only need to take a look at what you claimed you own.. an Antec CP and an Antec Signature, both rather inefficient units compared to modern high ends but both of them displaying a superior temperature Delta and far superior electrical performance than most Gold units currently on the market... that alone invalidates your argument...

Well, maybe you are forgetting some (historical) facts: when the Signature hit the market (IIRC the 2nd half 2008) it was one of the most efficient unit available.
Nowadays its bronze level is a below average score, indeed, but it wasn't so when I bought it.

With reference to the CP-850, I mean you know it's a very peculiar unit: apart that in 1st quart 2009 with a 230V it clearly pass the 80+ and about meet the 80+ Bronze level (again, in that age it was a very respectable level) but it was (it is) a unit with a very limited and specific application, sold at almost half the price of similarly sized high quality PSU (like the Signature 850, or my M12D).
Personally I bought it to fit inside a modded P182 I owned, and swapped with the HCP when I swapped the P182 for a Raven 2, as I had no more enough room to fit it inside (since then I retired even the HCP as it disappointed me, but this is another story).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

and really, if efficiency was that important to you, why not buy a FSP Aurum instead of the Signature(for example)?.. High efficiency is desirable but not when it comes at the cost of electrical performance metrics such as VReg, ripple/noise suppression, and proper response to cross loading and transient loads.

I didn't say (nor I intended to say) that efficiency has to be pursued at any cost.
But, if I may add, it depends of what you aim to.
For a folding rig, just for example, power efficiency is a key factor (for all the parts of the rig). IMO.
In the server market, again, when during 24/7 operation a firm could spend more on electric power than on processing power, power efficiency really does matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

Indeed easy, simple and wrong... I'm gonna bring back the Aurum example, I recall an X-Bit review which measured ~40 db at full load on an Aurum CM sample... high efficiency isn't a prerequisite nor a warranty for low noise output.

That FSP Platform isn't a really good performing one in may respects: to name another "mixed bag unit", probably the same it goes for the new Antec EarthWatts Platinum (nor I use X-Bit as a primary source of information on PSU, I prefer JonnyGuru, Au-Ja!, TPU, SPCR and randomly a few others like Bit-Tech or HardwareSecrets).

However, I used in my previous post the expression "A more efficient unit ... can be more comfortable for our ears".
I used the verb "to can" as I know that an efficient platform can be not-so-quiet, or noticeably less quiet than a less efficient one (like my old CP-850 was, not the most efficient and quiet). Eventually an high efficiency isn't a strict requirement for quiet operation, but surely it doesn't hurt.

But moreover, IMHO the Aurum example doesn't fit "tout court".

I've just said (right before my easy and simple example) that "enthusiasts" is a way generic word: who are those enthusiasts? Are they only the overclockers? The guys with a DICE pot on hand? Is a gamer an enthusiast? Is he an enthusiast if he does go to lan parties, or he's so even if he just plays at night in a bedroom, maybe with the door open o with a brother or a college mate sleeping inside it? A Linux-guy, who has his own servers connected to the Internet, is an enthusiast? The many people who fold for OCN, are entusiasts? And what about those "silencers"? Enthusiasts are people who don't buy Thermaltake (it's a joke, please dont' take offense anyone)?

I said that even a place expressly named "overclock.net" shows several advices for efficient or quiet PSUs (these are the first ones I saw on the PSU forum first page), so if an enthusiast is who actually knows what he's doing and subsequently what to buy, efficiency or quietness are performances needed by some people to address their own goals, and not just secondary criteria. IMO.
This is what I meant saying that "enthusiasts are a varied crowd".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

I just checked idealo.de and geizhals.at(with EU filter) and the price difference is around ~5 euros, that's not a premium wink.gif

Definitely not: as I said, the relevant prices may vary, and in Germany the two units come closer.
But it's not the same here in Italy, or in the USA, or in France. Again, as I said, price are often a marketing tool, more than an objective datum (IMO).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoriginal Sin View Post

I'm having trouble following your reasoning.. I fail to see why you'd put the X-560 and the GK 550 in different market segments, they're perfectly comparable and they address the same type of buyer.. and at a less than marginal price difference the GK 550 indeed outclasses the X-560, there's not two ways about this.

With reference to german prices, you're quite right, they fall in the same price segment (you're german, aren't you?).
But generally speaking I don't feel so.
I quoted the fact that when the 80+ Gold level units hit the marked they came at a price premium. Then they were made more and more affordable.
The same seems it goes for the Platinum ones: now they came at premium over less efficient PSUs, and in the next years (or months, see the Antec PEA) they will probably made more accessible.

Market prices, IMO, are the not-algebraic-sum of several factors: marketing positioning, wattage, build quality, electrical performances, historical and geographical reasons, et caetera.
Now personally I see the X-560 closer to units like the Cougar GX, Enermax Revolution, bequiet! P9, NZXT Hale90 and so on, rather than to the Kingwin LZP (or its OEM counterpart, the Super Flower SF550P-14PE): and in several counties (not in Germany; I know) prices seem to reflect more or less this positioning. Maybe in the next months it would be no more so.
post #46 of 52
not meaning to necro a thred here but im lokoing at the exact same thing..http://ncix.com/products/?sku=65712&promoid=1027
woudl my 2500k and xfire 6970's be ok there wont be much if any oc on teh gpus but im hoping for atleast 4.8 on the cpu?
post #47 of 52
I just ran my sig rig with 6970 crossfire @ 1ghz and cpu at 5.0ghz in 3dmark11 for a bit the other night on a seasonic 650 and it handled it fine. I didn't run furmark or anything because, well, that's stupid. wink.gif

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151106

this one.
99% CS:GO =D
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
7600k ASUS ROG Maximus IX Hero EVGA 980TI Hybrid Cooled Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial mx200 525gb Thermalright Silver Arrow Windows 10 BenQ XL2411 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky 1087 TKL w/TaiHao Hawaii Keycaps Seasonic G 750 Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Zowie ZA12 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Glorious PC Gaming Race XL Heavy ATH AD700x Xonar DSX 
  hide details  
Reply
99% CS:GO =D
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
7600k ASUS ROG Maximus IX Hero EVGA 980TI Hybrid Cooled Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial mx200 525gb Thermalright Silver Arrow Windows 10 BenQ XL2411 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky 1087 TKL w/TaiHao Hawaii Keycaps Seasonic G 750 Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Zowie ZA12 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Glorious PC Gaming Race XL Heavy ATH AD700x Xonar DSX 
  hide details  
Reply
post #48 of 52
you think the antec one i linked would be ok? i didnt see a point to making a new thread lol this one was close enough
post #49 of 52
i think you would be fine, especially if you're running the cards stock. I did notice that psu only supplies 2 x 6 +2 connectors, so you'd be running an adapter.
99% CS:GO =D
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
7600k ASUS ROG Maximus IX Hero EVGA 980TI Hybrid Cooled Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial mx200 525gb Thermalright Silver Arrow Windows 10 BenQ XL2411 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky 1087 TKL w/TaiHao Hawaii Keycaps Seasonic G 750 Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Zowie ZA12 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Glorious PC Gaming Race XL Heavy ATH AD700x Xonar DSX 
  hide details  
Reply
99% CS:GO =D
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
7600k ASUS ROG Maximus IX Hero EVGA 980TI Hybrid Cooled Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial mx200 525gb Thermalright Silver Arrow Windows 10 BenQ XL2411 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky 1087 TKL w/TaiHao Hawaii Keycaps Seasonic G 750 Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Zowie ZA12 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Glorious PC Gaming Race XL Heavy ATH AD700x Xonar DSX 
  hide details  
Reply
post #50 of 52
Corsair HX 750 80 plus silver $119 after MIR (code) [EMCNDJA24]

Little more cash but it's an option.
Project Haswell.
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4770k Asus Maximus VI Hero EVGA 980ti FTW G.Skill Trident X 2400Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Samsung 840 pro Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB Raystorm Block RX360 Extreme, RS 240 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Pump D5 Vario  Windows 10 Pro Q-nix 1440p Logitech G-710 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair 750w Thermaltake Core x9 Snow Edition Logitech G500 
  hide details  
Reply
Project Haswell.
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4770k Asus Maximus VI Hero EVGA 980ti FTW G.Skill Trident X 2400Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Samsung 840 pro Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB Raystorm Block RX360 Extreme, RS 240 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Pump D5 Vario  Windows 10 Pro Q-nix 1440p Logitech G-710 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair 750w Thermaltake Core x9 Snow Edition Logitech G500 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Power Supplies
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Power Supplies › 650W Seasonic PSU okay for Crossfire 6970's?