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[ZDNet] Rare earth materials 'hoarded' by China, WTO case goes ahead - Page 2

post #11 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Frosty View Post

They can do what they like, if China decide to hold things back then the law don't meen jack...
A country/s can't force another country to do ANYTHING..... What they going to do? Start a war?
If China say 'No' then there's a few options
1. Pay the higher prices
2. Look else were
3. Start a war and take things by force
Such simplistic views of the world.... rolleyes.gif

If WTO rules against China and China says no... it hurts China's global partnerships. China needs other countries to trust them. Members of the WTO (China as of 2001) agree to play by the rules. If they break the rules, it only hurts them in the long run. Would you and your friends want to buy from a store that will not take returns for defective merchandise even if required by law?

If China says no, here are the options:
1. Pay the higher prices
2. Look else were
3. Start a war and take things by force
4. Reduce trade
5. Increase tariffs
6. Organize boycotts of other goods
7. Restrict migration
8. Increase attention to humanitarian issues
9. Advertise against their export of high-speed rail technology
10. Undercut their military exports
... a few hundred other diplomatic, economic, social, and/or political actions.

The world is not black and white. This one thing does not happen in isolation.
Edited by DuckieHo - 3/14/12 at 7:46am
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post #12 of 137
The WTO exists to keep economic conflict from becoming armed conflict. Wars have started over resource access before, I hope it doesn't come to that again. We need less war, and more trade is better for everyone. Trade helps everyone, especially China. Competitive pricing is not illegal, but price fixing to ensure monopoly is illegal. Look at the following quote summarizing the role of the WTO before oversimplifying the situation and assuming anyone can do anything with whatever they "own."
Quote:
The result (of the WTO) is assurance. Consumers and producers know that they can enjoy secure supplies and greater choice of the finished products, components, raw materials and services that they use. Producers and exporters know that foreign markets will remain open to them.
The result is also a more prosperous, peaceful and accountable economic world. Virtually all decisions in the WTO are taken by consensus among all member countries and they are ratified by members' parliaments. Trade friction is channelled into the WTO's dispute settlement process where the focus is on interpreting agreements and commitments, and how to ensure that countries' trade policies conform with them. That way, the risk of disputes spilling over into political or military conflict is reduced.

By lowering trade barriers, the WTO’s system also breaks down other barriers between peoples and nations.

At the heart of the system — known as the multilateral trading system — are the WTO’s agreements, negotiated and signed by a large majority of the world’s trading nations, and ratified in their parliaments. These agreements are the legal ground-rules for international commerce. Essentially, they are contracts, guaranteeing member countries important trade rights. They also bind governments to keep their trade policies within agreed limits to everybody’s benefit.

The agreements were negotiated and signed by governments. But their purpose is to help producers of goods and services, exporters, and importers conduct their business.

The goal is to improve the welfare of the peoples of the member countries



Source
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post #13 of 137
This is also an informative video. I really wish more people would realize the high level economics that shape the decisions on world trade. Its based on math and what is demonstrably best for everyone (in a perfect world). Forgive the bad intro, its better than a typical 90's public service video I promise!

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post #14 of 137
http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/disp_settlement_cbt_e/c6s2p1_e.htm
Quote:
Fruitfulness of action under the dispute settlement system

Before initiating consultations, a Member is obliged to exercise its judgement as to whether action under the dispute settlement system would be fruitful, the aim of the dispute settlement mechanism being to secure a positive solution to the dispute (Article 3.7 of the DSU). By its express terms, Article 3.7 of the DSU entrusts the Members of the WTO with the self-regulating responsibility of exercising their own judgement in deciding whether they consider it would be fruitful to bring a case.

It would be in very bad faith if China did not follow through with their agreements.... especially since the US helped get them accepted into the WTO.
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post #15 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Such simplistic views of the world.... rolleyes.gif
If WTO rules against China and China says no... it hurts China's global partnerships. China needs other countries to trust them. Members of the WTO (China as of 2001) agree to play by the rules. If they break the rules, it only hurts them in the long run. Would you and your friends want to buy from a store that will not take returns for defective merchandise even if required by law?
If China says no, here are the options:
1. Pay the higher prices
2. Look else were
3. Start a war and take things by force
4. Reduce trade
5. Increase tariffs
6. Organize boycotts of other goods
7. Restrict migration
8. Increase attention to humanitarian issues
9. Advertise against their export of high-speed rail technology
10. Undercut their military exports
... a few hundred other diplomatic, economic, social, and/or political actions.

China can just deal direct with other countries, if one country chooses to boycott do you really think others will do it and hard there own country in the process?

If country A is telling countries B, C and D not to trade with country E but country E is offering deals to countries B, C and D for things that they require how long and how willing do you think they will be to follow country A?

These groups and rules are a joke, no matter what people say if push ever comes to shove it's every country for themselves....
Quote:
The United States plans to argue a case in front of the WTO (World Trade Organization) that China, producer of the majority of rare earth minerals, is ‘hoarding’ its resources to the detriment of worldwide competition.

And look, surprise surprise, It's America at the centre of it again.... rolleyes.gif
post #16 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

This already happened... this is to stop China from doing so again.
Actually, China is price fixing due to monopoly on current available supply. This is NOT good.

if You don't like it, nobody's stopping you to open your own mine...
Us and Australia has rare earth metals in plenty...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Such simplistic views of the world.... rolleyes.gif
If WTO rules against China and China says no... it hurts China's global partnerships. China needs other countries to trust them. Members of the WTO (China as of 2001) agree to play by the rules. If they break the rules, it only hurts them in the long run. Would you and your friends want to buy from a store that will not take returns for defective merchandise even if required by law?
If China says no, here are the options:
1. Pay the higher prices
2. Look else were
3. Start a war and take things by force
4. Reduce trade
5. Increase tariffs
6. Organize boycotts of other goods
7. Restrict migration
8. Increase attention to humanitarian issues
9. Advertise against their export of high-speed rail technology
10. Undercut their military exports
... a few hundred other diplomatic, economic, social, and/or political actions.
The world is not black and white. This one thing does not happen in isolation.

That's funny to hear all those arguments form a guy that says since US military invented internet, US is free to control and limit is all over the world...
Edited by mechati - 3/14/12 at 8:03am
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post #17 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Frosty View Post

China can just deal direct with other countries, if one country chooses to boycott do you really think others will do it and hard there own country in the process?
If country A is telling countries B, C and D not to trade with country E but country E is offering deals to countries B, C and D for things that they require how long and how willing do you think they will be to follow country A?
These groups and rules are a joke, no matter what people say if push ever comes to shove it's every country for themselves....
And look, surprise surprise, It's America at the centre of it again.... rolleyes.gif

What a pathetically short sighted perspective. Naturally once all social rules are removed its every country for themselves, but I hope humanity has advanced since the paleolithic era. It is mathematically provable that trade enhances the global standard of living. Human beings can communicate in ways that go beyond killing each other. It is far more efficient to make rules and uphold justice than to let everything descend into anarchy. Justice requires social rules, otherwise its all about who has the biggest stick. Even if you view the rules as a joke, it doesn't mean that the absence of rules is a better method. Do you prefer war over dialogue, or are you just being a non-constructive critic?
Edited by nmdehaan - 3/14/12 at 7:59am
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post #18 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Frosty View Post

And look, surprise surprise, It's America at the centre of it again.... rolleyes.gif

Would be nice to have a thread without you bashing Americans for once.... rolleyes.gif
post #19 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Frosty View Post

China can just deal direct with other countries, if one country chooses to boycott do you really think others will do it and hard there own country in the process?
If country A is telling countries B, C and D not to trade with country E but country E is offering deals to countries B, C and D for things that they require how long and how willing do you think they will be to follow country A?
These groups and rules are a joke, no matter what people say if push ever comes to shove it's every country for themselves....
And look, surprise surprise, It's America at the centre of it again.... rolleyes.gif

Again.... how you perceive the world works is wrong.

Please read up more.....
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post #20 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Again.... how you perceive the world works is wrong.
Please read up more.....

As opposed to your way of trying to force a country into doing something because of a piece of paper from WTO

Force is still force, no matter what form it comes in..... And force is bad for business...
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