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Gentle Typhoon AP-15 vs. Cougar CF-V12HP vs. Noctua NF-F12 - Page 12

post #111 of 140
Yeah and that's because some will prefer AP-14s over the rest = more demand.
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post #112 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpachris View Post

It's not a higher performing fan....it's a faster spinning fan. And it doesn't take much in design changes between an AP-14, AP-15 and an AP-45.

Plus...the manufacturer is not setting the price. The reseller is. And they can set it at whatever they want, based on their perceived demand and competition. The idea that a lower priced fan had to have "corners cut" is kind of silly. Just consider the different prices and price comparisons among some popular resellers of the Gentle Typhoons:

FrozenCPU - The AP-15 costs MORE than the AP-14

PerformancePCS - The AP-15 cost LESS than the AP-14

Sidewinder Computers: The AP-15 cost THE SAME as the AP-14

The idea that the manufacturer cut corners if a fan is lower priced quickly falls apart when you see that different resellers chose different price points for the fans. The AP-13, AP-14, AP-15 and AP-45 are all basically the same fans, that have been adjusted to spin at different speeds. If you are using a fan controller...there really isn't a strong case for buying one of the slower spinning fans.

I'm confused.

Yes it's a higher spinning fan, that provides more cfm and more static pressure
Can you explain using common sense logic why this fan would be cheaper AP-14 vs AP-45 ?
I'ts funny to see you call me silly when you're comparing an AP-15 which is higher performing than an AP-14. Yet when i bring up something higher performing and question why it's cheaper than the AP-15 you still shed no light to this.
If all of the ap-13 14 15 and 45 are the same price, why would the highest performing one be cheaper than the 'inferior' ones.
I mean i'd love to hear your opinion, after all you did insult me smile.gif

Also, i'm not sure what you've done or where you worked, I've worked a lot with a big named jewelry company and when i say "companies cut corners" it's because they do, and the average non-critical thinking consumer just buys something and doesnt care if the plastic is made from banana peels or bird droppings. im just trying to understand why the AP-15 is more expensive than the AP-45. that's all if youre going to insult me, at least provide a link with some form of factual research other then you debating your opinion vs mine
Edited by INCREDIBLEHULK - 5/18/13 at 2:29pm
  
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post #113 of 140
Just buy the AP-15's to ease your mind and call it a day! static pressure and cfm will rise as the fan spins faster.
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post #114 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by INCREDIBLEHULK View Post

I'm confused.

Yes, I think you are. And I'm not trying to insult you.

But the fallacy in your logic is that you seem to believe it must cost more to spin a fan motor faster. In reality, almost any 12 volt fan out there could spin faster or slower than it does...just by changing the circuitry...not the motor itself or any of the parts. FrozenCPU also sells the GT AP-29 (3,000 rpm), AP-30 (4,250 rpm) and the AP-31 (5,400 rpm) for $23 bucks each. They don't get more expensive just because they are spinning faster.

The AP-13, AP-14, AP-15 and now the newly introduced AP-45....probably are all the same fan....with circuitry that spins them at different speeds. Since you've worked "a lot with a big named jewelry company" I'm sure you aware that to a certain extent it is demand for a product that drives the price. Resellers don't use the exact same mark-up for every fan that they sell. I would guess that the AP-13, 14, 15 and 45 are all sold by Nidec for the exact same price. Differences in reseller pricing will depend on any bulk discounts they got, and their perceived demand for the fan. Pretend I'm FrozenCPU and I just bought 100 Fan A's, and 100 Fan B's, and they all cost me $10 bucks each. But Fan A has been a run-away best seller for 2 years now...and there is pent-up demand for Fan A, and it sells out almost as soon as I get them. Fan B doesn't sell as well. Do you think I'm going to sell Fan A for the same price as Fan B? Demand drives product pricing. Especially when there are zero to negligible differences in the cost of making the products.

Again, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. But you need to get over the mentality of "if it spins faster, it must cost more". That is simply not the case. And the demand for a slower spinning fan may be much greater than a higher spinning fan, if people value noise level more than air flow. So...I'm also going to resist your label of "higher performing fan" being assigned to the AP-45...because some people may not consider it higher performing at all.....if its creating noise levels that they are uncomfortable with. Noise would have to be considered.

I'll also point out that the price of the AP-15's has ranged from like $12 to $25 bucks over the last few years depending on how available they were from re-sellers. Does that mean you were getting a better fan back when we had to pay $25 for a AP-15?
post #115 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpachris View Post

Yes, I think you are. And I'm not trying to insult you.

But the fallacy in your logic is that you seem to believe it must cost more to spin a fan motor faster. In reality, almost any 12 volt fan out there could spin faster or slower than it does...just by changing the circuitry...not the motor itself or any of the parts. FrozenCPU also sells the GT AP-29 (3,000 rpm), AP-30 (4,250 rpm) and the AP-31 (5,400 rpm) for $23 bucks each. They don't get more expensive just because they are spinning faster.

The AP-13, AP-14, AP-15 and now the newly introduced AP-45....probably are all the same fan....with circuitry that spins them at different speeds. Since you've worked "a lot with a big named jewelry company" I'm sure you aware that to a certain extent it is demand for a product that drives the price. Resellers don't use the exact same mark-up for every fan that they sell. I would guess that the AP-13, 14, 15 and 45 are all sold by Nidec for the exact same price. Differences in reseller pricing will depend on any bulk discounts they got, and their perceived demand for the fan. Pretend I'm FrozenCPU and I just bought 100 Fan A's, and 100 Fan B's, and they all cost me $10 bucks each. But Fan A has been a run-away best seller for 2 years now...and there is pent-up demand for Fan A, and it sells out almost as soon as I get them. Fan B doesn't sell as well. Do you think I'm going to sell Fan A for the same price as Fan B? Demand drives product pricing. Especially when there are zero to negligible differences in the cost of making the products.

Again, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. But you need to get over the mentality of "if it spins faster, it must cost more". That is simply not the case. And the demand for a slower spinning fan may be much greater than a higher spinning fan, if people value noise level more than air flow. So...I'm also going to resist your label of "higher performing fan" being assigned to the AP-45...because some people may not consider it higher performing at all.....if its creating noise levels that they are uncomfortable with. Noise would have to be considered.

I'll also point out that the price of the AP-15's has ranged from like $12 to $25 bucks over the last few years depending on how available they were from re-sellers. Does that mean you were getting a better fan back when we had to pay $25 for a AP-15?

Thank you for the post, do you have any sources that can guarantee me all fans are the same and cost the same?

The reason i ask is because you say there is a fallacy in my logic, then provide more proof to back up my logic.
AP-30 , AP-29, AP-31 all can "spin faster" and "perform faster" and cost _more_
AP-45 can "spin faster" and "perform faster" and cost _less_
ap-15 is lower spinning and lower performing than all, costs less than ap-30 ap-29 ap-31 and costs MORE than ap-45
(every higher spinning/performing fan you listed cost more than the ap-15 but the ap-45 costs less...)
I understand what you are saying about supply/demand however when I asked if you could post any proof i was hoping you had hardcore solid facts from a website or something, because as i said before, we are merely debating our "logic".
So when you quote what I did to give you an example of my perception of things, it just seems like an insult, because your claiming my logic has fallacy and your logic does help prove my logic right.

So until we can find out if all these fans cost the same biggrin.gif it's safe to say either either they do cost all the same or my "fallacy" logic as you call it is true and something changed in these fans. skull.gif
Edited by INCREDIBLEHULK - 5/18/13 at 6:40pm
  
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post #116 of 140
cougars work very good for pwm controlled air cooling. i installed 2 on my dark knight 2 today and 3 as case fans. the silence when web browsing or anything minimal is amazing. they only crank up when playing a game. and even then all you hear is a bit of air movement. yet they move a ton of air for 1500 rpms
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post #117 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by INCREDIBLEHULK View Post

Thank you for the post, do you have any sources that can guarantee me all fans are the same and cost the same?

The reason i ask is because you say there is a fallacy in my logic, then provide more proof to back up my logic.
AP-30 , AP-29, AP-31 all can "spin faster" and "perform faster" and cost _more_
AP-45 can "spin faster" and "perform faster" and cost _less_
ap-15 is lower spinning and lower performing than all, costs less than ap-30 ap-29 ap-31 and costs MORE than ap-45
(every higher spinning/performing fan you listed cost more than the ap-15 but the ap-45 costs less...)
I understand what you are saying about supply/demand however when I asked if you could post any proof i was hoping you had hardcore solid facts from a website or something, because as i said before, we are merely debating our "logic".
So when you quote what I did to give you an example of my perception of things, it just seems like an insult, because your claiming my logic has fallacy and your logic does help prove my logic right.

So until we can find out if all these fans cost the same biggrin.gif it's safe to say either either they do cost all the same or my "fallacy" logic as you call it is true and something changed in these fans. skull.gif
hulk, your a complicated guy. ;-) I can identify with that. I bought a ap-15 for one of my radiators, sounds better than the two NF-F12s I have in the other rad. Try one yourself. Martin willsay the same, see hhe's last 12 fan comparison.
Cheers
post #118 of 140
FWIW, I have not seen a huge difference between models of the Gentle Typhoon series. I have personally tested multiple samples of the AP-15, an AP-13, AP-14, AP-15, AP-45, AP-29.

While I will generally recommend picking a fan that run your preferred maximum at full 12V for any fan, I have found all GT model to have a similar good noise/cfm ratio. The gray blade slower speed does seem to do a touch better than the high speed black 29s with retention ring, but really they all seem to have the same quality parts.

I have seen variations in yate loon fans, some have straight blades some are curved and we have seen different motors, I think it is more due to that's the way someone orders them by spec not because they are cutting corners.

Servo Nidec is a huge company and more industrial focused. I have not seen huge variances myself. Like anything it's possible to get a bad sample, but I wouldn't worry about it. If anything I think there is some demand pricing happening still. For a while there was a huge shortage of supply of the 15 model and many vendors were ramping up prices because of that.

I would suggest buying whatever model top speed meets your top noise tolerance.

Try one or two models if you are not sure then make a decision. It is just a fan and e eryone has their own personal noise preferences so only you can be the judge by you own ears..smile.gif

Cheers!
Martin
Edited by Martinm210 - 5/18/13 at 7:47pm
    
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post #119 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paps.pt View Post

hulk, your a complicated guy. ;-) I can identify with that. I bought a ap-15 for one of my radiators, sounds better than the two NF-F12s I have in the other rad. Try one yourself. Martin willsay the same, see hhe's last 12 fan comparison.
Cheers
HULK MAD!!! HULK SMASH!!!! biggrin.gif
i just try to be thorough, problem is when i don't know something i'm always expecting there is someone like me that has the research i cant find to help me get to 100% certainty of something.

i was ready to save on the ap-15's and run them full speed, after seeing the ap-45's and the increased potential, i don't know what's better, the markup of the two scared me, however 4fans x $4 becomes a $20 savings without the added shipping
also not sure if i want the extra dB for a few hundred rpm providing a tad bit more cfm/static pressure

right now i've been runnning my blade masters low but it seems the typhoon will provide more cfm/static than the blades at 12-15k rpm

ty for trying to help me understand the ap series fans btw, + rep to ya biggrin.gif
  
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post #120 of 140
AP-15 are already at the limit for me. I would call them noisy if they didn't have that pleasant tone.
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