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I need help, my first build.

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
MAGNUM TH10 Case

Hello Guys

Im a newbie here, and Im trying to build my first system (so far Ive been buying high end Dell and HP boxes).
I purchased a CaseLabs Magnum TH10 Case, and I need some help picking parts.
Some pointers:
- Noise factor is important for me; I need the built to be as silent as possible.
- I have a Dell T7400 packed with Hardrives and I ran out of room, for now I will move all internals to the TH10 Case but Im planning to get a different Mobo and CPU in the new future (maybe a SR-X when is available, and depending on the news about future XEON with Overclocking capabilities)
- Im considering Water Cooling, (for now not for my CPU or Mobo, but for my GPU (only one GTX 580) my Raid Card (ARECA 1882ix 24) and my Harddrives (twelve SAS 3.5 Inches 15K RPM).
My current T7400 is very hot inside and I think is affecting the overall performance, so when I move the internals to the TH10 Case I want to add water-cooling around (for the HDs, RAID and the GPU)
Later, when I get the new Mobo and CPU I might be overclocking (then I will need real cooling there).
Of course, if somebody tells me that I really benefit from water-cooling my current dual Xeon even though they are not OC, then I could do too.
This wont be a Gaming computer, but more of a Video Editing System (Also Photoshop work), Looks is important but not that important.
I know I need a Reservoir, Radiator, Fans, a Pump, Tubing, and some Waterblocks.
I just don’t know where to start, and what to get, specially because I don’t know how to pick regarding noise levels (I don’t want a watercooling system what will be more noisy than the Fans that could do the job).
The only thing Ive picked so far are HD Waterblocks from koolance:
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=678

The rest, there are so many brands and models that I don’t know where to start.

Some advice will be real cool and will help me a lot

Thanks!!
Manny
post #2 of 19
First let me say that is an amazing choice of a case smile.gif... next, would you mind adding you current system specs to your sig? smile.gif... now for all teh answers (and a few more questions thumb.gif)

first of all, what kind of bidget you on? and y not WC your CPUs (best option for silent)? lastly, how important are looks for you?

next, i would stay away from HDD WCing personally as it is a major PITA, and doesnt work very well... with the TH10 there will be fans mounted in front of where your HDDs will be, so cooling then wont be an issue... also, how many HDDs do you have in this system total (i would assume more then just the 12x SAS drives)?

you also must note that WCing gets very expensive very quickly depending on what you want, however it will give you the quietest set up possible

It is also very unlikely that you will be able to WC your RAID card without a custom made water block... that said, you could easily get a masive passive HS and cool it just through regular air flow rather well

once you answer the budget question, then i can help with the actual loop smile.gif
Edited by eskamobob1 - 3/16/12 at 3:23pm
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post #3 of 19

Check out the Tegra cards for workstation GPU.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/workstation-solutions.html

 

For the fastest load time of graphical assets using Final Cut, Premier, After Effects, and Photoshop you should look into the fastest SSDs.

http://www.ocztechnology.com/ocz-revodrive-pci-express-ssd.html

 

Also if cooling needs to be quiet and you don't want to get your hands/system wet...go Corsair Hydro Cooling

http://www.corsair.com/cpu-cooling-kits/hydro-series-water-cooling-cpu-cooler/hydro-series-h60-cpu-cooler.html

 

If you end up waiting for the Z77 chip...I am waiting to get my hands on this board...

http://bg.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/SABERTOOTH_Z77/

 

Just a few key products for your use case IMHO.

 

Thanks!

post #4 of 19
Thread Starter 
Thanks eskamobob1,,,,
Well Im not millionaire, but I dont really have a budget yet.
I was expecting to spend less than $ 600 for the watercooling, but I dont know if thats a reasonable amount.
I could start with good Pump and Radiator, and grow little by little.
I prefer to start small but good quality and then add more radiators later or some more tubbing or some mroe stuff (in a way I dont have to ditch things I would buy now).

Not sure if that sounds doable

Thanks a lot.

Manny
post #5 of 19
If you plan on water cooling 12 hard drives, you can pretty much throw a $600 budget out the window... The cheapest I've seen any hdd blocks for were ~$35 each, putting those at $400 alone, and it wouldn't surprise me if you ended up spending more than that on them. Add in ~$120 for a gpu block, and the budget is seriously hurting. On top of that, to handle that many blocks you're likely not going to be able to run a single pump, you'd need a pair of them. Getting quality pumps, cheap-ish reservoirs, a single 480mm rad, and just plain barbs & hose clamps would probably put a budget for something like that around $900-950. If you want to go for looks and grab fancy reservoirs and compression fittings, that'd easily put you over $1000. Instead of water cooling the hard drives, I'd focus on trying to spread them out and ensuring they get proper airflow, unless your ambients are excessively high this shouldn't be an issue in your new case.

I would also go ahead and water cool the cpu, as it's relatively cheap to add to a loop and is certainly capable of better cooling at lower noise levels than air coolers. By moving both the CPU and GPU to water cooling, you remove all high-noise fans, and can run your choice of quiet fans while still providing better cooling. Pick up a 480 radiator designed for very low RPM fans, like the RX480, and you should have no issues cooling both your cpu and gpu at very quiet levels. When you upgrade later, you can always throw a second 480 in if you're adding significantly more heat and don't want to up the fanspeed.
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post #6 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobase2008 View Post

Thanks eskamobob1,,,,
Well Im not millionaire, but I dont really have a budget yet.
I was expecting to spend less than $ 600 for the watercooling, but I dont know if thats a reasonable amount.
I could start with good Pump and Radiator, and grow little by little.
I prefer to start small but good quality and then add more radiators later or some more tubbing or some mroe stuff (in a way I dont have to ditch things I would buy now).
Not sure if that sounds doable
Thanks a lot.
Manny

lol... np at all... $600 is plenty doable for a very nice loop.. i will list out the things off teh top of my head that i think you could use:

RAD:
Airplex 480 ($190)
they are a bit pricy, but by far the best low flow rad i have ever used
Black Ice SR1 ($130)
a decent bit cheaper, but not as hogh of quality and dont perform quite as well

GPU Block:
i would stay away from nickel if possible, and either get koolance, aquacomputers, or EK... if you do get nickel though, stay away from EK for now
($90-120)

Pump:
you have quite a few options here, but i would recommend getting a good pump now so that you don't have to worry when you expand later.. i would look into either a D5, 355, or a 35X... all are on the pricier side, but if i had to guess, you will want to expand later
($50-100)

fans
there are so many choices here that i litteraly cant list them all... that said, i will list my favorites... just note that between many of the ones i list, it comes down to personal preference on the actual sound made (because they all have roughly the same dBa level)
GT-AP15s ($18 ea)
these are the go to fans for just about every WCer out there as they have excellent performance, with very minimal noise, however they are hardly ever in stock anywhere
Cougar V12HP ($15 ea)
these perform prity much on par with the ap15s, however their "noise quality" is a little worse IMO... that said, you dont realy hear them at all anyways
Nocturna F12 ($15 ea)
these also perform on par with the AP15s, at the same noise level, just with a slightly different sound
Yate Loons ($5 ea)
these are much cheaper then the others i have recommended, however they are lower quality and will be much louder at the same performance level... that said, they are will byu far the quietest fans in their price range

Fan controler
this is essental to any "silent" build, but depends on what features you want... i will lest features, and reccomend controlers based on what features you pick
1) RPM sensor
2) how many channels (you can have multiple fans on one channel)
3) temp sensors
4) warnings
5) control over the look its self
6) max number of fans on a single channel

CPU Blocks:
i though i would include these as well just fro some information
EK HF supreme ($90)
Heatkiller ($80)
Raystorm ($60)
these are all some of the best performing blocks on teh market and all very high flow (a major plus in WCing)... they all perform on par, and it realy just matters what theme you are going for

misc.
res ($10-x00?)
fittings
tubing
these all depend on what look yuo are going for, and how much money you want to put into the look of your comp

NOTE: all my prices are just nicely rounded being based off of FrozenCPU


im sure i missed a part or two, but over all, that should be a good bit of info to start you off... make sure to check out martins fan comparisons and research on building teh actual loops as well... hope that helped smile.gif

EDIT: also, there is a general rule of thumb that for ever WB you add to a loop, you need 120mm of rad space (i like to keep it at 4x120mm of space for every 3 blocks just to be safe though smile.gif)
Edited by eskamobob1 - 3/17/12 at 8:27am
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post #7 of 19
Thread Starter 
All wonderful advise.
Ill use the night today to check each part suggested and start making my mind up.
I couldn't find the Aeroplex 480,, I found "Aquacomputer Airplex" not sure if those are the ones, because I didnt see the 480.

I see that I wont be able to put this together without 'supervision' so Im going to start taking pictures of what I have today and how I will transform it.
Somebody catch my wrongs, please. smile.gif

I think not WC the HD seems like a pretty reasonable option (I dont want to go crazy either).
Ill wait until the cage is here also, and start checking my options for mounting the HD,, I think also the solution will present itself because it will depend on how the spacing and location of the HD will be inside the cage.

I've been salivating for the TH10 for a while,, I ordered yesterday and I think it will be here in about a week (Im in south florida)

Thanks!
Manny

PS- A question came into my head:
Lets say I put two 420 RADs on the loop, with one pump,, will the pump be able to handle two Rads or I will create so much resistance to the flow that the pump will be overworking?,,, in the same topic, will it be better to run two 420 Rads with Fans at low speed on the same loop or better one 420 Rad with Fans at a higher speed. Or does not matter at all?
Edited by gobase2008 - 3/16/12 at 7:34pm
post #8 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskamobob1 View Post

CPU Blocks:
i though i would include these as well just fro some information
EK HF supreme ($90)
Heatkiller ($80)
Raystorm ($100)

Prices are definitely off a bit there, the Raystorm has been as cheap as $50 lately, and the MSRP isn't nearly as high as $100. Here, here, or here for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobase2008 View Post

Lets say I put two 420 RADs on the loop, with one pump,, will the pump be able to handle two Rads or I will create so much resistance to the flow that the pump will be overworking?,,, in the same topic, will it be better to run two 420 Rads with Fans at low speed on the same loop or better one 420 Rad with Fans at a higher speed. Or does not matter at all?

That'll depend on a few things, like how fast you consider high-speed fans and which particular radiator, but generally speaking more radiator is better. Obviously, if you pick up a radiator that's designed to be ran with high-speed fans (like the Black Ice GTX series), it's going to significantly underperform with low-speed, and even doubling the radiator you may not catch back up, but that's something that can easily avoided by purchasing a radiator that matches your desired fans. As for the pump, a quality pump like the 35X or 655 should be fine with 2 radiators and 2-3 blocks, I only mentioned the multi-pump above with 12 HDD blocks also included, as that's a lot of restriction. I'm assuming you mean a 480 radiator, 4x120, as that's what your case is designed to hold. For specific radiator performance, that's going to vary depending on the radiator. For example, a Black Ice GTX 360 can easily handle 1200w of heat with high rpm fans, while an RX360 with 600 rpm fans is 5C higher at half the load, meaning a pair of RX360's and 600rpm fans are going to be beat by a single GTX360 with high RPM fans. Upping the fans on the RX360 to 1000rpm, they're going to catch up with the GTX360, and you can certainly have less volume with 6x 1000rpm fans rather than 3x 3k rpm fans.

I'd go with the RX480 over the SR-1, it performs better with lower-rpm fans I believe while being around the same price point. If you're just going with a CPU and GPU loop, a single 480mm should be fine for your needs, especially with the CPU not overclocked. If the 580 isn't overclocked, you're only throwing ~300w of heat at the loop under max load.
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post #9 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakageta View Post

Prices are definitely off a bit there, the Raystorm has been as cheap as $50 lately, and the MSRP isn't nearly as high as $100. Here, here, or here for example.

that was a guestimate from my phone as i didnt have time to look up the price... that has majorly gone down from when i was last looking at them tongue.gif (i changed the price in my post)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakageta View Post

That'll depend on a few things, like how fast you consider high-speed fans and which particular radiator, but generally speaking more radiator is better. Obviously, if you pick up a radiator that's designed to be ran with high-speed fans (like the Black Ice GTX series), it's going to significantly underperform with low-speed, and even doubling the radiator you may not catch back up, but that's something that can easily avoided by purchasing a radiator that matches your desired fans. As for the pump, a quality pump like the 35X or 655 should be fine with 2 radiators and 2-3 blocks, I only mentioned the multi-pump above with 12 HDD blocks also included, as that's a lot of restriction. I'm assuming you mean a 480 radiator, 4x120, as that's what your case is designed to hold. For specific radiator performance, that's going to vary depending on the radiator. For example, a Black Ice GTX 360 can easily handle 1200w of heat with high rpm fans, while an RX360 with 600 rpm fans is 5C higher at half the load, meaning a pair of RX360's and 600rpm fans are going to be beat by a single GTX360 with high RPM fans. Upping the fans on the RX360 to 1000rpm, they're going to catch up with the GTX360, and you can certainly have less volume with 6x 1000rpm fans rather than 3x 3k rpm fans.
I'd go with the RX480 over the SR-1, it performs better with lower-rpm fans I believe while being around the same price point. If you're just going with a CPU and GPU loop, a single 480mm should be fine for your needs, especially with the CPU not overclocked. If the 580 isn't overclocked, you're only throwing ~300w of heat at the loop under max load.

totaly agree thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobase2008 View Post

All wonderful advise.
Ill use the night today to check each part suggested and start making my mind up.
I couldn't find the Aeroplex 480,, I found "Aquacomputer Airplex" not sure if those are the ones, because I didnt see the 480.
I see that I wont be able to put this together without 'supervision' so Im going to start taking pictures of what I have today and how I will transform it.
Somebody catch my wrongs, please. smile.gif
I think not WC the HD seems like a pretty reasonable option (I dont want to go crazy either).
Ill wait until the cage is here also, and start checking my options for mounting the HD,, I think also the solution will present itself because it will depend on how the spacing and location of the HD will be inside the cage.
I've been salivating for the TH10 for a while,, I ordered yesterday and I think it will be here in about a week (Im in south florida)
Thanks!
Manny
PS- A question came into my head:
Lets say I put two 420 RADs on the loop, with one pump,, will the pump be able to handle two Rads or I will create so much resistance to the flow that the pump will be overworking?,,, in the same topic, will it be better to run two 420 Rads with Fans at low speed on the same loop or better one 420 Rad with Fans at a higher speed. Or does not matter at all?

lol... sry... i wrote that on my phone and it auto corrected to "aeroplex" instead of "airplex"... as for the spacing of the HDDs, there is plenty of room between them for good airlow... there are only 3 per cage if memory serves... also, one good pump (like the ones recommended above) can most definitely handle that (excluding 12x HDD blocks)... as for teh rads, the airplex perform amazingly well in both low and mid speed an categories (right where my suggestions fall anyways)... i would personaly get one airplex (as that will handle your current heat load with ease) and get a second later if needed inorder to keep you noise level down smile.gif
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Big Bang Theory
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old meets new
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G.Skill Ripjaw Z 64GB @ 1833 MHz Vertex 4 512GB Vertex 4 512GB H80i 
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Windows 7 Ultimate Auria 27" (2560x1440) Auria 27" (2560x1440) Lepa G. 1600 
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HAF X 942 Corsair M90 Senheiser S170 
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Q6600 EP45-UD3P Sapphire 5870 ASUS 5850-Top Direct CU 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
DDR2 Dominators 1x 80GB samsung H70 XP Pro 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Dell 22" (1680x1050) Sony 17" (800x900) Auria 27" (2560x1440) Wolf king 
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post #10 of 19
Thread Starter 
I tried to to get the Airplex 480, but I can find only 420.
Is it the same?
The Magnum TH10 Case has prefitted whole on the top for 480 fans.
Not sure if this will fit.

Also, when I tried to order it ask me questions about the size of the fittings.(1/4 , 3/8 , 1/2 etc) as well as 'reservoir attachment',, are all those needed?
What size fitting you guys use?


The BlackIce 480 was easy to find,, but I read of the increased resistance (looks like some people ended up using noisier or higher speed fan because of that)

Manny
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