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post #31 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by zodac View Post

Yes, but everyone is arguing against multipel accounts because it breaks the ToS of Stanford. I don't think it does, and because of that, it's not my role to decide what OCN members can and can't do...

Hopefully the OCN management will think this through and make a decision.

I do suggest that someone in management or yourself contact HP and ask them the specific question of "is it ok to make multiple accounts with different emails to run folding@home on your servers" The answer will be clear then.

However, I very much appreciate you willingness to listen and understand. thumb.gif
Edited by Lutro0 - 3/17/12 at 12:58pm
post #32 of 83
This is from VJ blog in 2008 it is pretty clear

Update of the EULA

We have added one word to the End User License Agreement (EULA), but it is an important word. The EULA can be found at
http://folding.stanford.edu/English/License

We added the word "written" to this sentence:

"You may use this software on a computer system only if you own the system or have the written permission of the owner."

We felt that this was an important addition in order to avoid any confusion. There have been a few situations where donors felt that they had permission, but the owners of the computers did not. Having written permission is the best way to make sure that there is no doubt. It also gives protection to the donor in that he/she would then have proof of permission, avoiding problems involving oral agreements.
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post #33 of 83

There is written permission; it's part of the ToS of HPCS; you have access to use it as long as it doesn't break any laws.

 

What you have not provided is a link to where HP say you can't have multiple accounts, not have you provided a link where HP say they revoke permission, and under which conditions.

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post #34 of 83
Hopefully this will help end this.
He will also be emailing me the Legal Wording that supports this.
But I think its enough to have this log. But I will email the info when he sends it.

Quote:
Chat Started: 03-17-2012 16:55:00
Chat Log:
Eloy Martinez: Thank you for contacting HP Cloud Services Support. My name is Eloy. How may I help you?

You: Sorry got disconnected with you there

Eloy Martinez: No problem, not sure if you got my last message. I'll paste it here.

Eloy Martinez: Ok, I'll be happy to look through the documentation for such wording. I created the case with the information you've given me previously and I will respond to the email address you came in with once I have that information for you.

You: What I was asking is at least I can post that from your mouth, that to create multiple emails and use those to make multiple accounts on your beta program is against the TOS correct?

Eloy Martinez: Absolutely, any account created that does not belong to the person named on the account is against our TOS.

You: So even if one person owned lets say 10 accounts, you are only allowed to have and use one on this beta program?

Eloy Martinez: Yes, that is correct, unless special permissions have been obtained.

You: Ok, and from your standpoint and this can be a "in your opinion" that for a person to create 20 accounts and use them on your service that this hurts other people chances at getting to try out your cloud program and is abusing your program?

Eloy Martinez: In my opinion, yes, that is an abuse of the program. Especially if these people are misleading us by giving a false intended use case.

You: Awesome, that is all I need. When you find the wording we talked about earlier please email it to me. Thanks so much for your help.

You: Have a great day!

Eloy Martinez: Will do. Very happy to help. You have a great day too!
post #35 of 83

Yes, this part is in the ToS:

"Absolutely, any account created that does not belong to the person named on the account is against our TOS."

 

The line was something like "Customer must provide factual information".

 

However, I signed up with the same information with different email addresses; I never gave any false info. So could you send him a message and ask about that too? Because I've looked through the ToS and haven't found it. If I'm missing it, then a link would be appreciated. ;)


Edited by zodac - 3/17/12 at 2:10pm
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post #36 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by zodac View Post

There is written permission; it's part of the ToS of HPCS; you have access to use it as long as it doesn't break any laws.

 

What you have not provided is a link to where HP say you can't have multiple accounts, not have you provided a link where HP say they revoke permission, and under which conditions.


Z I am just curious if you know the difference between right and wrong. Are you studying to be an attorney or something along those lines. You are continually looking for loop holes to justify a choice that is morally, ethically and technically wrong. Your way around it is say prove otherwise. Z you should have proven it right before you even started doing it. And you definitely should have checked once it was questioned. Your reaction here is a little disappointing.
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post #37 of 83

The issue here is whether or not I (as Folding Editor) should outlaw the practise. I don't have that permission, unless it is breaking Stanford's ToS.

 

So, if we can prove that is the case, I can go ahead and make a  large announcement banning the use of multiple accounts, and shut down my own. However, if it can't be proved, then it's up to OCN management to make that decision, not me.

 

They're already looking into it, so it might become a moot point, but if I'm gonna tell people not to do it, I want to say "it is against Stanford's ToS", and have that stand up to arguement, rather than say "it's against HPCS' ToS. Yes, I know that's not related to Folding, but still, stop it".

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post #38 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by zodac View Post

Yes, this part is in the ToS:
"Absolutely, any account created that does not belong to the person named on the account is against our TOS."

The line was something like "Customer must provide factual information".

However, I signed up with the same information with different email addresses; I never gave any false info. So could you send him a message and ask about that too? Because I've looked through the ToS and haven't found it. If I'm missing it, then a link would be appreciated. wink.gif

Here is the first email, and I will follow it up with the chat with the question you wanted to ask.
Quote:
Hello Mike,

I believe I've found the area of interest you've referred to in section six,
"Customer Obligations and Representations and Warranties," subsection one,
"Obligations," part six of our Customer Agreement, which I've pasted below.
I've also given you the link to the source of the information.

"(vi) give HP true, accurate, current, and complete information (Account
Information) when establishing Customer's account associated with the
Services;"

http://hpcloud.com/customer_agreement

Please let me know if you have any questions about this.

Best Regards,

Eloy M.
HPCS Solutions Consultant
ref:_00D30pfkA._50030K9qum:ref
Quote:
Chat Started: 03-17-2012 17:23:42
Chat Log:
Eloy Martinez: Thank you for contacting HP Cloud Services Support. My name is Eloy. How may I help you?

You: hello again

Eloy Martinez: Hello Mike! I assume you got my email.

You: I have one more question, and thanks for the email btw

You: Yes I did.

Eloy Martinez: Great! What can I do for you?

You: If a person signed up with honest info just used different emails this is still against your TOS Correct?

Eloy Martinez: Hmm, I'm actually still going through the document, so I can't say for sure. Though, as I said previously, in my opinion, it is negatively impacting potential beta users.

Eloy Martinez: I'll have to get back to you once I go through the document completely.

You: Awesome I look forward to that. But the assumtion can be made that the program was always intended to be used one for one user.

Eloy Martinez: That would absolutely be a fair assumption.

You: Awesome. I appreciate your time in helping us with this manner. I have one more question.

You: Ok, so to be clear and a yes or no answer would be ok. A user would have to use all of their real honest name and info and in the usage box put Folding@home for that account to be a valid account in the first place?

Eloy Martinez: Yes, that is correct according to our Customer Agreement.

You: Awesome! I appreciate your time in all of this and I look forward to your answer.

Eloy Martinez: Happy to help. I'll get back to you as soon as possible.

You: Thanks!

Eloy Martinez: No problem. Let me know if you have any other questions.

At this point its clear to see that if you were dishonest at all in your signup (which we can assume many where) that the account is breaching tos.

He at this point is just being probably the best tech/rep I have ever run into. He has already said that making many accounts is wrong and not allowed. But now he is just running through all of the legal garbage for us to prove what he just said.

I would like to think that what has been said and shown so far should be enough. And if we are going to hang onto some sort of email loophole, then we are losing the whole point in the first place.

I will post his email when it comes.
Edited by Lutro0 - 3/17/12 at 2:33pm
post #39 of 83
I'm so enjoying this.
post #40 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by _s3v3n_ View Post

I'm so enjoying this.

Why would this be enjoyable to you?

What part about a concerned member of the OCN folding team trying to make sure our team is doing the right thing "enjoyable"?
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