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[Vrzone] GTX 680 SLI Preview - Page 20

post #191 of 290
I can't wait for real benches so I can finally decide whether to go 7970 CF or 680 SLI! Will probably stick with Nvidia for PhysX and the fact that I am used to their drivers and support. I really wish more developers would take advantage of PhysX as it really makes a big difference in the games that support it....
post #192 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toology View Post

I have never had micro stutter once, i do have a friend with dual 6950's in crossfire and i did notice his system does have microstutter on BF3 and only BF3. Im curious why he gets it and i dont on my dual 580 lightnings, luck maybe?

You get it you just don't notice it. Every multi-GPU setup in the world 'gets' Microstutter. This part is not arguable just consider yourself lucky you don't see it.

The faster your going the harder it is to notice though. In other words most games won't push dual 580s or dual 7870's (and up) hard enough to dip below 60 which is kind of the threshold for bad microstutter. However even a vsynced 60 or vsynced 120 FPS you are still experience microstutter although I doubt many people noticed over 100 FPS.
    
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post #193 of 290
When I think of stutter I think of technical issues preventing the cards from synching. Otherwise, what some here are complaining about sounds like the rainbow effect with DLPs or something similar that affects rare numbers of people. I can't see stutter like that utube vid on my setups, but I can see when it's stuttering badly via technical issues. Running it in slow-mo at 30FPS is like reaching a bit. If that's what it takes to show a difference between single and multi gpu setups...
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post #194 of 290
No offense to anyone here but microstutter is very real and very well documented. Honestly I don't believe that anyone here doesn't see it what I think is that people just don't notice it (if that makes any sense). Tom's Hardware had a great article on it if you want to learn more about it.

In a nutshell all it is really is the cards not syncing right when spitting out frames. SLI/CF use Alternate Frame Rendering and like all things aren't always exact on when they put each frame out. It affects *every* setup *ever* made. This is a fact.
    
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post #195 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

No offense to anyone here but microstutter is very real and very well documented. Honestly I don't believe that anyone here doesn't see it what I think is that people just don't notice it (if that makes any sense). Tom's Hardware had a great article on it if you want to learn more about it.
In a nutshell all it is really is the cards not syncing right when spitting out frames. SLI/CF use Alternate Frame Rendering and like all things aren't always exact on when they put each frame out. It affects *every* setup *ever* made. This is a fact.

How can it be fixed, if ever? Reduced latency?
post #196 of 290
Not an expert here, but here's something interesting I noticed with bf3:

I ran my monitor at 75hz, FPS with a 5970 never dipped below 90.

Playing in this default state resulted in very noticeable stutter - game wasn't smooth and felt like it was running at 40FPS.
Playing with vsync enabled removed the stutter but introduced severe mouse lag, game was unplayable.
Playing with an in-game FPS limiting command(gametime.maxvariablefps 75 ?) removed stutter without introducing mouse-lag, but caused screen-tearing.

I didn't have this stuttering problems with other games because the 5970 just brute-forced its way through everything else. Stutter isn't nearly as noticeable at 500FPS as it is in the sub-100 range.
post #197 of 290
It is NOT a fact that EVERY multi GPU setup experiences microstutter. How would you even go about proving that? You gonna test every multi-GPU computer on the planet? Even if you did, what's stopping you from claiming MS where none exists? Or what about the placebo effect; i.e. you "notice" MS that isn't there simply because you expect to see it. It would be a fascinating experiment to show footage from random singe and multi-GPU computers to supposed MS "experts" and see if they could actually discern which setups were multi or single...
post #198 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sxcerino View Post

How can it be fixed, if ever? Reduced latency?

To my knowledge, reducing latency between the cards syncing would improve it. I don't think it will ever be fixed completely.

If anything microstutter has been getting worse it seems (or maybe it's just because more people are aware of it). I didn't notice it on my 2x 8800GTX until someone pointed it out.. ever since it's all I see on multi-gpu setups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

It is NOT a fact that EVERY multi GPU setup experiences microstutter. How would you even go about proving that? You gonna test every multi-GPU computer on the planet? Even if you did, what's stopping you from claiming MS where none exists? Or what about the placebo effect; i.e. you "notice" MS that isn't there simply because you expect to see it. It would be a fascinating experiment to show footage from random singe and multi-GPU computers to supposed MS "experts" and see if they could actually discern which setups were multi or single...

Every multi GPU setup on the market has microstutter, this is fact. Depending on drivers, the game, and what FPS you are running affects how noticeable it is but it will always be there. Some people will never notice it (because it can be very minor in certain situations), other's will always notice it. It has nothing to do with the GPU and everything to do with the delay between the cards communicating - this delay will likely always exist because it's nearly impossible to get this to .000ms. There is no need to test every single card in SLI/CF to prove microstuttering exists on all of them. NVIDIA and AMD don't even deny this, it's how the technology works. Go read about how this technology works and what causes microstuttering, by arguing this you are just proving you don't understand how the technology works (no offense).

(I know someone is going to quote me and say that their setup does not have microstuttering, and all I can do is highlight what I said above " Some people will never notice it ".)
Edited by Murlocke - 3/18/12 at 9:05pm
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post #199 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by naizarak View Post

Not an expert here, but here's something interesting I noticed with bf3:
I ran my monitor at 75hz, FPS with a 5970 never dipped below 90.
Playing in this default state resulted in very noticeable stutter - game wasn't smooth and felt like it was running at 40FPS.
Playing with vsync enabled removed the stutter but introduced severe mouse lag, game was unplayable.
Playing with an in-game FPS limiting command(gametime.maxvariablefps 75 ?) removed stutter without introducing mouse-lag, but caused screen-tearing.
I didn't have this stuttering problems with other games because the 5970 just brute-forced its way through everything else. Stutter isn't nearly as noticeable at 500FPS as it is in the sub-100 range.

That may be why I don't see much MS now that I think about it.
I have my FPS limited to 62 in Afterburner with vsync disabled 24/7. It also keeps the GPU's from stressing to 99%, not sure if that has anything to do with them desyncing. I do see bad MS in FSX. It's so bad, it makes 45FPS look like 25.

BTW, set the maxfps to 77 or 73. If you set it to the monitors refresh rate without vsync, you will see a nice steady tear.
Edited by pengs - 3/18/12 at 9:00pm
post #200 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

You get it you just don't notice it. Every multi-GPU setup in the world 'gets' Microstutter. This part is not arguable just consider yourself lucky you don't see it.
The faster your going the harder it is to notice though. In other words most games won't push dual 580s or dual 7870's (and up) hard enough to dip below 60 which is kind of the threshold for bad microstutter. However even a vsynced 60 or vsynced 120 FPS you are still experience microstutter although I doubt many people noticed over 100 FPS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

No offense to anyone here but microstutter is very real and very well documented. Honestly I don't believe that anyone here doesn't see it what I think is that people just don't notice it (if that makes any sense). Tom's Hardware had a great article on it if you want to learn more about it.
In a nutshell all it is really is the cards not syncing right when spitting out frames. SLI/CF use Alternate Frame Rendering and like all things aren't always exact on when they put each frame out. It affects *every* setup *ever* made. This is a fact.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-stutter-crossfire,2995.html

Good read.
Edited by Mesmero - 3/18/12 at 9:02pm
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