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[Xbit] Intel Continues to Dominate, But AMD Manages to Slightly Gain CPU Market Share in 2011 - IDC. - Page 9

post #81 of 105
I can't believe that people want AMD to scrap their new innovative CPU architecture just because it didn't do so good compared to their expectations.

I keep seeing people wanting AMD to innovate but when they did innovate, they got BD but it didn't match everybody's expectations so now, they want AMD to go backwards. Makes no sense to me.

This is overall good news for AMD and I can see AMD progressing even further now.
post #82 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotUrAverageJoe View Post

You know even though I don't agree with your opinion I've still been respectful. After all, it's just a friendly conversation - nothing person about it at all. You on the other hand have been rude to everyone on this thread. What's amazing is how someone manages to be so clueless yet so condescending at the same time.
1) You made the argument that BD was designed for APU's anyways. How can BD be intended for APU's when it's power consumption goes through the roof at higher speeds? Nothing about Bulldozer even resembles an APU. Llano on the other hand...
2) You just mentioned Linux performance and market share at the same time. How many people do you honestly think use BD for Linux encoding purposes? How many pre-built computers actually shipped with the FX-8150? That chip has limited market share to begin with. Which brings me to this point...
3) We were talking architecture - not one specific chip. When you have a successful architecture all chips from top to bottom perform well - not just the flagship that's $50-$75 than the chips you're comparing it to.You keep saying it's more than just gaming - so why did AMD market this chip heavily toward the gaming community? The only programs BD excel in are Linux ones that benefit from more cores. When you compare apples to apples BD loses every time. Try the FX-4100 against the 2500k and Phenom II 965 and Bulldozer gets killed.
4) Again, you don't spend $260 for an enthusiast chip just to play Bejeweled. What percentage of gamers? Well considering all new games are bottlenecked it's safe to say they aren't satisfying their targeted audience. The fact that their flagship CPU is nowhere near supporting their GPU is a disgrace - especially when AMD has spend this much time advertising Dragon Platform/Gaming Evolved brand.
Trolls like you always tend to get the conversation off topic by making asinine remarks. I'm pleasantly surprised AMD managed to game market share despite the reputation hit they took.

I didn't mean to be rude, I was just getting frustrated at the continuing talk about the Bulldozer Desktop CPUs.

I'm really not talking about their desktop CPU's, but about the new architecture in general. For the majority of applications in windows the bulldozer CPU's pretty much BLOW. There is no real arguing about that. They are suppose to make much IPC and Power consumption headway in 2012 and yes that is yet to be seen. However, it is the configurable TDP, Resonant Clock Mesh, and it's interaction within the APU framework that will show us it's true purpose. AMD, for the most part, is all in with it's APU's and this new architecture will play a huge role in that.

We all know how the Bulldozer CPU's compare to Intel's current offerings, I'm really just trying to point out that there is future potential and that the architecture its self is not a complete failure because that can't be based only off of their current desktop performance, when it is meant to serve a different kind of purpose also.

I'm so tired I'm not even sure if that makes sense.

Also, you were the one who came in here talking crap about Bulldozer's performance when I was simply theorizing about the potential effects of them winning Console CPU contracts.
    
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post #83 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotUrAverageJoe View Post

There are several ways to design a cpu/engine/whatever - it's up to the company to make sure it works. At the end of the day, they released a mediocre product. If it wasn't successful you can't really defend the approach. History is full of "almost really good" products.
Just because its first iteration failed doesn't mean the product is doomed forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

In my opinion AMD decision to call their "hyperthreading" a "core" is marketing. For me it seems more like a 4 true core ship plus "hyperthreading amd way". So it should be no major surprise that it loses to a "true 6 core" in some benchmarks that make use of that floating point unit.
This has been brought up at least dozens of times. 8 integer cores, sharing 4 FPUs. So yes, it is an octo core.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotUrAverageJoe View Post

1) You made the argument that BD was designed for APU's anyways. How can BD be intended for APU's when it's power consumption goes through the roof at higher speeds? Nothing about Bulldozer even resembles an APU. Llano on the other hand...
3) We were talking architecture - not one specific chip. When you have a successful architecture all chips from top to bottom perform well - not just the flagship that's $50-$75 than the chips you're comparing it to.You keep saying it's more than just gaming - so why did AMD market this chip heavily toward the gaming community? The only programs BD excel in are Linux ones that benefit from more cores. When you compare apples to apples BD loses every time. Try the FX-4100 against the 2500k and Phenom II 965 and Bulldozer gets killed.
Bulldozer IS designed for APUs. Why on earth would AMD design an architecture that goes against its own plans? The power curve is a flaw, as in, will be fixed because it wasn't intended. All of the Trinity demos have been impressive, I think they can pull it off no problem. The architecture can shine, despite you saying it never will.
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post #84 of 105
I think the only reason why people are complaining about it not being an 8 core is because each individual core has garbage performance. If AMD managed to release Bulldozer with Sandy Bridge level IPS, there wouldn't be a word of this 8 core nonsense.

I do believe the vast majority of workloads on the CPU are integer related anyways. Floating point is best done on a GPU.
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post #85 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

I think the only reason why people are complaining about it not being an 8 core is because each individual core has garbage performance. If AMD managed to release Bulldozer with Sandy Bridge level IPS, there wouldn't be a word of this 8 core nonsense.
I do believe the vast majority of workloads on the CPU are integer related anyways. Floating point is best done on a GPU.

Intel tried that with Sandy Bridge-E. Wound up with $600-1000 6-cores. You wouldn't want to see the price (or power consumption) of something with SB's per-core performance, and 8 cores.
 
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post #86 of 105
A lot of the die space is soaked up by the extra L3, the quad channel interface and the QPI bus. Intel's also charging an arm and a leg for them.
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post #87 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapientia View Post

Just because its first iteration failed doesn't mean the product is doomed forever.

...

Bulldozer IS designed for APUs. Why on earth would AMD design an architecture that goes against its own plans? The power curve is a flaw, as in, will be fixed because it wasn't intended. All of the Trinity demos have been impressive, I think they can pull it off no problem. The architecture can shine, despite you saying it never will.

There is only one "Bulldozer" - that's the current FX lineup. The next revision is considered Piledriver. I know it seems like a simple mistake but it's very important to distinguish between generations of a CPU. In Piledriver they're completely redoing the power distribution. Many people (myself included) have only been saying they need to seriously redo the architecture. By the time they fix all these flaws they will have redone half of the chip design - which makes the chip not even Bulldozer anymore.

Llano used a modified Phenom II chip. When they manage to redo the power system THEN Trinity and other APU's will be based on the new design (Piledriver). If Bulldozer architecture is designed for APU's then why did they intentionally skip over BD cores? They could have easily planned a Bulldozer-based APU for Q1 2012.
    
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post #88 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkilbride View Post

AMD is already on this generations consoles.
http://techreport.com/articles.x/8342/1
Didn't seem to help them much at all. Should have been optimized for AMD GPU's as the X360 is the most popular console of this generation for games.
Yet everytime a console port comes to PC, somehow NVIDIA has better optimized drivers and performance overall than ATi.

Noone said they weren't oneeyedsmiley02.png
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post #89 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotUrAverageJoe View Post

There is only one "Bulldozer" - that's the current FX lineup. The next revision is considered Piledriver. I know it seems like a simple mistake but it's very important to distinguish between generations of a CPU. In Piledriver they're completely redoing the power distribution. Many people (myself included) have only been saying they need to seriously redo the architecture. By the time they fix all these flaws they will have redone half of the chip design - which makes the chip not even Bulldozer anymore.
Llano used a modified Phenom II chip. When they manage to redo the power system THEN Trinity and other APU's will be based on the new design (Piledriver). If Bulldozer architecture is designed for APU's then why did they intentionally skip over BD cores? They could have easily planned a Bulldozer-based APU for Q1 2012.

Trinity is based on really old Piledriver cores. There were Trinity samples out and about, being demo'd, before BD's release. I'm inclined to believe desktop PD will be a different animal... Hopefully.

Chiphell has some numbers out via today trinity @ 4.2 turbo did 23s superpi.

edit - here http://www.chiphell.com/thread-387958-1-1.html

That's not good lol.
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post #90 of 105
AMD's Fusion APU chips is AMD's future. They are going nowhere with their Module Architecture for the cpu. The whole point of the module architecture is for Accelerated Processing Units. Bulldozer is not meant to be ran as a CPU. This was known before it came out. See how well Llano did and that was just a first gen. Take a look at AMDs gameplan if you are going to criticize. AMD has no intentions of going after the CPU power house crown. Their main goal is to get their APU performance and overall rating up. Their APU gives them a chance to get into all different form factor markets.

AMD has a good game plan ahead of them and they just need to stick with it. As long as they can continue to improve on their hardware performance and make the move over to their HSA and SOC plans, then they should be doing pretty damn well for themselves within the next few years.
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