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post #21 of 29
I just stumbled upon this page: http://www.overclockers.com/pc-water-coolant-chemistry-part-ii/

says using too pure water might be a bad thing for corrosion
 
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post #22 of 29
I just assembled my first loop not long ago using just Wal-mart distilled water and a silver coil in the reservoir. Haven't seen and problems yet. Once I get a GPU block and need to take apart my loop I will most likely check inside my CPU block for any build-up.
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post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by opt33 View Post

Often deionized water at many chemical supply companies is distilled first, then deionized. Some bi-distilled in chemical supply companies starts with filtered/deionized water or its done at the end.
They start with double distillation and end with reverse osmosis and deionizing? Can you find a credible URL on that? The only one I could find was this
http://www.consteril.com/index.php?pg=86
"Reverse Osmosis (RO) filtrated water is produced by forcing the water through a thin permeable membrane which removes most solid contaminants and dissolved minerals. RO is often the first step during production of Deionized or Distilled water. RO filtration does not remove biological particles such as bacteria or viruses."

On the same webpage, paragraph "How is water Purity Measured", distilled water is located to the left. Double distilled water would be further to the left.

As for pH value 2-3 is probably wrong, but.....
http://www.allaboutwater.org/reverse-osmosis.html
"Reverse osmosis, also, by removing alkaline mineral constituents of water, produces acidic water."
Quote:
Originally Posted by opt33 View Post

Each step reduces ions/contaminants, but doesnt eliminate them.

If you want to filter something through multiple steps you will start with a coarse filter an finish with a fine filter.

http://www.reagent.co.uk/distilled-water
"Almost all of the impurities are removed in the distillation process, whereby the water is boiled, condensed into steam, and the steam collected in a clean container leaving almost all trace elements behind. Deionized water may still contain some impurities but Distilled Water is extremely pure...."

It makes no sense to start with double distillation.

http://www.dowwaterandprocess.com/applications/industrial/ultrapure_water.htm
No mention of double distilling there and I haven't found any other site either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purified_water
"Distillation alone does not guarantee the absence of bacteria in drinking water unless containers are also sterilized."
Why would Feser want to use "sterilization methods" on double distilled water?
Edited by HPF - 3/19/12 at 9:30am
post #24 of 29
@HPF, Just go to one of the sites that sells varying degrees of pure water like here, first site I found.

But as you can see they take Grade 2 water which may be distilled/bi-distilled, ion exchange or reverse osmosis followed by distilled. Then to make grade 3 they take Grade 2 water and apply reverse osmosis again (finer RO filter) or ion exchange followed by 0.2um filter or distilled again using better tech.

But you will find water purified by RO then distilled or distilled then RO. Also there are "course" RO filters and ultra fine RO filters, just like varying degrees of distillation procedures, and varying degrees of ion exchange resins to handle initial or further purification.

And acidic water is ph 5-6. PH 2-3 is not pure water, it would be significantly ionized with H+ water.
Quote:
Type I grade of reagent water shall be prepared by distillation or other equal process, followed by polishing with a mixed bed of ion exchange materials and a 0.2-micron membrane filter.

Grades of Laboratory (reagent) waters:

Grade 1

Essentially free from dissolved or colloidal ionic and organic contaminants. It is suitable for the most stringent analytical requirements including those of high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC). It should be produced by further treatment of grade 2 water for example by reverse osmosis or ion exchange followed by filtration through a membrane filter of pore size 0.2µm to remove particle matter or re-distillation from a fused silica apparatus.

Grade 2

Very low inorganic, organic or colloidal contaminants and suitable for sensitive analytical purposes including atomic absorption spectrometry (AAS) and the determination of constituents in trace quantities. Can be produced by multiple distillation, ion exchange or reverse osmosis followed by distillation.

Grade 3

Suitable for most laboratory wet chemistry work and preparation of reagent solutions. Can be produced by single distillation, by ion exchange, or by reverse osmosis. Unless otherwise specified, it should be used for ordinary analytical work.

Edited by opt33 - 3/19/12 at 9:50am
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post #25 of 29
i Know on our water we do this -

10 Micron Filter (TDS at input with a high end industrial TDS / PPM reader)
5 Micron Filter
1 Micron filter
0.5 Micron Filter
Carbon block 1
Carbon block 2
Metal removal system 1
Metal removal system 2
RO 1
RO 2
RO 3
DI 1
DI 2
DI 3
DI 4
Ultra Violet Hi output system (TDS at Output with a high end industrial TDS / PPM reader) Any thing over 0.1 TDS is Rejected. Alarm sounds, process stops and filters changed over.

We waste approx 4 Ltrs to make 1 Ltr of ultra Pure Grade 2 water.

Our TDS is 0.01 to 0.02 (at source)
PH is 7.6

After 1 month in bottle (stored between 24c to 26c)

TDS is 0.04 to 0.05
PH is 7.4

After 3 Months

TDS is 0.05 to 0.06 (stored between 24c to 26c)
PH is 7.4

After 6 Months

TDS is 0.07 to 0.08 (stored between 24c to 26c)
PH is 7.5

After 1 year

Not tested yet...

We summarise that the longer the liquid is in the bottle the higher the TDS / PPM goes even though we use sterilised food safe bottles. We noted using Black or Blue food safe bottles that the liquid TDS rocketed were as using Clear / White bottles this went up very slowly. We chose White bottles so that UV would not change the liquid.

All so noted was storage temps and conditions. E.g If a re-seller hold the liquids at different temps the liquids PPM all so changes accordingly and it may go up as high as 1.0 to 2.0 ppm

Test meters are calibrated before each run on the system. TDS / EC meter tested with 2400 Cal solution and PH meter calibrated with 4,7 and 10 PH solutions. There is a 0.2% consideration all so taken into account.

In the EU it is not a viable option to use a distiller as the cost of powering the distiller was to expensive. We did have a distiller installed how ever removed it now due to the cost of electric.With the distiller left in the process we produced 0 TDS water how ever we think that 0.01 / 0.02 is acceptable loss of quality in compassion to the cost of producing the liquids.
Edited by Mayhem - 3/19/12 at 10:20am
post #26 of 29
Thread Starter 
LOL WOW!

I Love Overclock.net!

I am amazed at how much knowledge just got poured into my brain from such a simple question.

You guys are awsome! All of you!

I think i am now an H20 expert

I wanted to keep looking for TFC Ultra Pure water for my loop only because i started using it and want to continue using it out of fear that another product might ruin something in my loops.

I use silver kill coil as well as Dead water.
post #27 of 29
Or you could just ask a Chemist, Distilled Water is Ideal for a water cooling loop. Anything more then that is excessive because the ultra pure water will slowly draw metals and other materials from the surrounding environment back into itself. I test for trace metals in my job so we have DI or De Ionized water at work and we measure it by it's resistance. If it's 18.2mOhms there is nothing in it comes from the old V= I R equation voltage is equal to current times resistance. So if the resistance is high it's not very conductive.

Water is also a polar molecule, meaning it's charged positive on the hydrogen end and negative towards the oxygen end of it. It also does not exist as simply H20 in a glass it breaks apart and reforms constantly so it will split from H20-> (H+) and (OH-) so when we say pH of 7 that actually translates to the concentration of (H+) in water at any given time. The pH actually means Power of Hydrogen and is calculated as the Inverse Log of the Concentration of Hydrogen or a simpler way to put it blah blah math blah. I won't go into the equation, but when you add acid like hydrochloric to water it also dissociates (means splits up) into H+ and Cl- because of the split it adds more H+ ions to the water making the pH go lower because of the inverse negative log (Math!) making the water more acidic.

Water also causes things to RUST!, like iron that's that whole Chemistry and Dissociation that causes that to happen. For example Iron or Fe 2+ will bind to two of the (OH-) ends of water to form a bright orange rust. Most of the nasty dark red rust on your car is actually FeCl2 from road salt.

Finally water is a solvent, it will dissolve a lot of things we'll go with salt for example though. there comes a point where no matter how much more salt you add to water it sinks to the bottom. That has to do with the saturation rate, it works such that the more pure the water is the stronger it's affinity to dissolve and bind with other materials. This doesn't mean De Ionized water will melt holes in the floor but because it is very low rate of saturation it will try and pick up whatever it can dissolve in solution. So my Conclusion is if your using the silver coil or the PT nuke which is copper sulfate DI water should be fine because it can take from the silver or the copper in solution rather than the rest of the components, but it raises the conductivity by adding silver and copper metal and makes it a waste of money in the first place just use the distilled water.
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post #28 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talynn67 View Post

Or you could just ask a Chemist, Distilled Water is Ideal for a water cooling loop. Anything more then that is excessive because the ultra pure water will slowly draw metals and other materials from the surrounding environment back into itself. I test for trace metals in my job so we have DI or De Ionized water at work and we measure it by it's resistance. If it's 18.2mOhms there is nothing in it comes from the old V= I R equation voltage is equal to current times resistance. So if the resistance is high it's not very conductive.
Water is also a polar molecule, meaning it's charged positive on the hydrogen end and negative towards the oxygen end of it. It also does not exist as simply H20 in a glass it breaks apart and reforms constantly so it will split from H20-> (H+) and (OH-) so when we say pH of 7 that actually translates to the concentration of (H+) in water at any given time. The pH actually means Power of Hydrogen and is calculated as the Inverse Log of the Concentration of Hydrogen or a simpler way to put it blah blah math blah. I won't go into the equation, but when you add acid like hydrochloric to water it also dissociates (means splits up) into H+ and Cl- because of the split it adds more H+ ions to the water making the pH go lower because of the inverse negative log (Math!) making the water more acidic.
Water also causes things to RUST!, like iron that's that whole Chemistry and Dissociation that causes that to happen. For example Iron or Fe 2+ will bind to two of the (OH-) ends of water to form a bright orange rust. Most of the nasty dark red rust on your car is actually FeCl2 from road salt.
Finally water is a solvent, it will dissolve a lot of things we'll go with salt for example though. there comes a point where no matter how much more salt you add to water it sinks to the bottom. That has to do with the saturation rate, it works such that the more pure the water is the stronger it's affinity to dissolve and bind with other materials. This doesn't mean De Ionized water will melt holes in the floor but because it is very low rate of saturation it will try and pick up whatever it can dissolve in solution. So my Conclusion is if your using the silver coil or the PT nuke which is copper sulfate DI water should be fine because it can take from the silver or the copper in solution rather than the rest of the components, but it raises the conductivity by adding silver and copper metal and makes it a waste of money in the first place just use the distilled water.

would it be a problem if i start mixing the distilled water in my loop with Ultra Pure already in it?
post #29 of 29
No, if there is any residual material in the distilled and nothing in the ultra pure it will just dilute the materials in the distilled water down so for example if you had 2 part per billion (micro gram per liter) of sodium in the distilled water. 2x10^-6 grams dissolved in one liter and you have 900ml of the ultra pure water which we will assume is zero and you need to go to 1000ml or 1 Liter you would have to add 100ml of distilled water. so the equation would look like (1000ml of total water)/(100ml of distilled water)= 10x (x also means times) dillution factor. your 2 ppb of sodium would be divided by that 10 x dillution factor bring it to a total of 0.2 ppb. 2ppb/10x dillution=0.2 ppb of sodium in your loop. so it should not hurt it just makes the ultra pure less pure so it's slightly more conductive but also less chance of it slowly eating at any of the raw metals in the loop, mostly aluminum if your using that. I've got a variety of Instruments (not machines!) at work that we use to test for trace metal content so the coolest one I have got has to be our ICP-MS or Inductively Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometer. This thing generates a Plasma stream using a strong RF current in argon gas to destroy any residual materials and ionize single metal atoms into higher energy states so they can be read by the Mass Spec portion. This thing is sensitive enough that i can look at 1 part per trillion detection levels. So down to one nano-gram of a metal in a liter of water.
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