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Phobya X-Treme HAF-X CPU/GPU cooling performance

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Hey guys,

Intro


I have a HAF-X case, and currently everything is being cooled by air. I am looking into building a WC set-up as I get set to purchase new upgrades, but am having a difficult time deciding on both the WC set-up and the new components I will be purchasing.

Please keep in mind, with all of this, that I am a complete noob to WCing, so my assumptions may be completely and totally wrong. I am here to learn, and I thank those of you who are more knowledgeable in advance for taking the time to read this post.


The Set-Up

With the GTX 680 set to come out, and with a reported TDP of only 195w, my feeling is that these cards should be easier than any others before to have WC'd, OC'd, and SLI'd. LOL.

My preferred new set-up would be:

Intel i7-3930K
ASUS Rampage IV Extreme LGA 2011 Intel X79
32 GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3
2 x GTX 680 SLI

However, I am also considering waiting for the new Ivy Bridge chips, or going for the quad-core i7-3820, or even simply going with a single 680 instead of SLI.

For me, there are benefits to having six cores, but this would not really benefit gaming very much. The benefit to gaming of higher overclocks might outweigh the benefit to other tasks of having a hexacore CPU. Also, I wonder if the benefits to gaming of having quad-channel memory and SLI 16x PCIE 3.0 on the LGA 2011 outweigh the losses in over-clock-ability? I am not entirely sure, and want to figure out, as close as I can, what I would be able to do with cooling to reduce the number of trade-offs.


Phobya 400 or 360 Radiator?

My question is mostly about how well the Phobya X-Treme 400 works, or would work, with this set-up. I would LOVE to be able to cool the whole thing with just this one radiator.

According to a number of threads describing this radiator, the performance of the Phobya Xtreme 200 is supposed to be about the same as a middle-of-the-road 360 rad (so a Phobya 400 would be about the same as two 360 rads).

According to SkineeLabs, when testing a bunch of 360 rads in pull-only, and at 1.6 GPM, most can achieve a 10C Delta with fans running between 1400-2200 rpm while dissipating between 400w-520w. http://skinneelabs.com/2011-2012-radiator-comparison/3/

Is this the kind of performance I can realistically expect (x 2 = 800w-1040w heat dissipation) if mounting a Phobya Xtreme 400 on the top of my HAF-X case (will require a slight amount of modding to fit, which I am comfortable with)?

As I understand it, the main impediment to using this radiator is the lack of really good 200mm fans with high static pressure. Is/are there any fans available that, when mounted in this type of set-up, would give me the flow/pressure I need to achieve 800w-1000w heat dissipation while maintaining the volume levels one would hope to get from a 200mm fan?


The Reasoning

My thinking is this:


  • OCing the i7-3930K to 5GHz will bring its TDP up to about 200w, according to most of those people I can find who have done it.

  • Although we do not know the TDP of the GTX 680 under load, we do know that Nvidia lists the TDP as 195w, and we do know how they’ve listed other cards.

    I found some comparative TDP load ratings of cards in SLI running both a Crysis and Furmark (actually, “Program X”, since Nvidia tweaks their cards for that test) at Anand: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4008/nvidias-geforce-gtx-580/17

    And I found some comparative tests with the same cards (though not in SLI, which would probably lessen the TDP per-card a little bit) running 3D Mark’s Canyon Flight test at Bit-Tech: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/11/09/nvidia-geforce-gtx-580-review/8

  • Although this is extremely unscientific, I put the numbers in a little chart, took the wattage in these tests as a multiplier of the Nvidia listed wattage, then averaged them out, and finally used this multiplier to project how the GTX 680 would fare in the same tests.

169

My gut tells me that I should probably allow for about 600w TDP during serious gaming with two GTX 680’s in SLI.


So . . .

In order to OC an i7-3930 to 5GHz (200w TDP) and water-cool two GTX 680’s in SLI (600w TDP), while maintaining a 10C Delta, I am going to need to dissipate at least 800w of heat. This could be accomplished by having two run-of-the-mill 360 rads in a pull-only set-up, at a flow of 1.6 GPM, with a fan speed of 1400 rpm. Any increase in fan speed, or going to a push-pull set-up, and I would have more headroom to OC the graphics cards.

--or—

Could a Phobya Xtreme 400 mounted in the top of my HAF-X case provide the same thing?
Edited by manders2600 - 3/19/12 at 12:05am
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post #2 of 14
Get a nice 360 rad on the top, a single 140 at the back and a 200 on the front, thats the most rads you can fit in the HAF. Or mount one 360 externally, like i did. At the top.

Or get a Mo-ra3, phobya supernova
Edited by douglatins - 3/19/12 at 2:39pm
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post #3 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by douglatins View Post

Get a nice 360 rad on the top, a single 140 at the back and a 200 on the front, thats the most rads you can fit in the HAF. Or mount one 360 externally, like i did. At the top.
Or get a Mo-ra3, phobya supernova

Agreed. I have a 360mm up top and a 200mm up front and im cooling 3 gtx 580s and a 2600k at 5ghz with my temps on gpus never breaking 45c and cpu 60c. Mounting the res up front is a little tricky but if u have a dremel tool its easy to drill out the rivets for the HDD cage and either remove it or move it back to fit the rad. just make sure u cut two holes into the bay bottom as the rad is two big to squeeze down there with out cutting them.

450[/VIDEO]
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post #4 of 14
Why no cut the bottom?
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post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dredknot View Post

Agreed. I have a 360mm up top and a 200mm up front and im cooling 3 gtx 580s and a 2600k at 5ghz with my temps on gpus never breaking 45c and cpu 60c. Mounting the res up front is a little tricky but if u have a dremel tool its easy to drill out the rivets for the HDD cage and either remove it or move it back to fit the rad. just make sure u cut two holes into the bay bottom as the rad is two big to squeeze down there with out cutting them.
450[/VIDEO]

Awesome!!

Thanks for the response, it makes me so glad to know that you are able to cool that much stuff with a 200 and a 360. I was really worried that a 200's cooling power would be, in reality, more along the lines of a 240, given the available fans. But if you have a 2600K at 5GHz and three 580's, at the temps you listed, it SHOULD mean that the 200 is cooling pretty darn well.

I might do the 360 up top, but I have been reading this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/1200235/phobya-xtreme-400-rad-inside-a-haf-x and I think those mods look doable at my skill level (not super high, but okay). I kind of think that would be ideal.

As for mounting a 200 rad in the bottom, I have been reading this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/1222289/haf-x-using-sr1-420-and-phobya-200mm-rad-mod-with-images-and-install-information and that also looks doable.

However, in both of these threads, the radiators are used as INTAKE, and I am wondering how good an idea that is? I have read conflicting things about intake vs exhaust in terms of water cooling. My main worries, in these scenarios, would be blowing hot air on the HDs and the mobo/vrm/ram. I love the idea of having positive pressure inside the case, but would a 200mm fan on the side and a 140mm fan on the rear be enough to exhaust all of that hot air fast enough?
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post #6 of 14
I have a nzxt 1300rpm 200mm fan pushing air out front and 3 bgears 2000 120mm fans pushing air out the top. I don't think the hdds really create that much heat it won't be a problem for u. The guide u posted from betatester is what I used for reference when I did mine its very detailed. I forgot to mention im also cooling my motherboard. Let me know if u have any questions
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post #7 of 14
You're not going to be able to run a 3930K at 5.0 all the time without some serious cooling. Anything over 4.8 with SB-E chips seems to beg for higher end watercooling setups (5C water/air delta and lower) to keep them happy and stable along with a solidly low ambient. I've noticed with my 3960X that every time I i turn off the fans to one of my radiators (3x gtx 560s, 2x gtx280s, and 1x gtx140. treating them as 4x 560 rads for explanation purposes bc thats how I have the fans setup) I seem to lose ~150-100mhz as the highest stable clock for 20hr prime stability. I have noticed that going from a 2c delta to a 6C delta by turning down fans changed my max stable 20 hr prime OC by ~350mhz. If you want to push 5.0 24/7 without major stability issues and quick chip degradation you might want to up it to 3x 480 radiators minimum since you plan on having gpus in the loop as well. Don't forget about intel's overclocking warranty too.
 
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post #8 of 14
I forgot I am not using a side fan and I have my rear fan a slim scythe 2000rpm fan as an intake.
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post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fat_italian_stallion View Post

You're not going to be able to run a 3930K at 5.0 all the time without some serious cooling. Anything over 4.8 with SB-E chips seems to beg for higher end watercooling setups (5C water/air delta and lower) to keep them happy and stable along with a solidly low ambient. I've noticed with my 3960X that every time I i turn off the fans to one of my radiators (3x gtx 560s, 2x gtx280s, and 1x gtx140. treating them as 4x 560 rads for explanation purposes bc thats how I have the fans setup) I seem to lose ~150-100mhz as the highest stable clock for 20hr prime stability. I have noticed that going from a 2c delta to a 6C delta by turning down fans changed my max stable 20 hr prime OC by ~350mhz. If you want to push 5.0 24/7 without major stability issues and quick chip degradation you might want to up it to 3x 480 radiators minimum since you plan on having gpus in the loop as well. Don't forget about intel's overclocking warranty too.

Jeez!!!!

That's a LOT of cooling!

In that case, I'm not sure it's even worth it to go with the hexacore. How does the stability of the SB-E hold up on slightly lesser OC's? I guess what I mean is, would 4.8 be stable 24/7 with a 10C delta, or would the higher-end WC requirements scale pretty evenly? I could be fine with 4.8, as I don't think I would really notice much difference in gaming, and heavily threaded applications are going to be destroyed on the hexa vs the quad. However, if I could realistically only get, say a modest 4.2-4.4 OC on the hexa, it might make more sense to get a 3770K, with the thought that the die shrink (and 3.5-3.9 stock at 77w TDP) would lead to ridiculous OC-ability.

I really do not want to go with external radiators, and I would like to stick with the HAF-X case, if possible. I also have an Antec Twelve Hundred v3 that holds my media server (Xeon E3-1235, 16GB ECC 1333, Asus C206 Mobo, and 10 2TB Hitachi 7k3000's in RAID-6) and my plan had been to transfer my current gaming rig to this case, while getting a rack-mountable case for the server.

Thoughts?
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post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by manders2600 View Post

Jeez!!!!
That's a LOT of cooling!
In that case, I'm not sure it's even worth it to go with the hexacore. How does the stability of the SB-E hold up on slightly lesser OC's? I guess what I mean is, would 4.8 be stable 24/7 with a 10C delta, or would the higher-end WC requirements scale pretty evenly? I could be fine with 4.8, as I don't think I would really notice much difference in gaming, and heavily threaded applications are going to be destroyed on the hexa vs the quad. However, if I could realistically only get, say a modest 4.2-4.4 OC on the hexa, it might make more sense to get a 3770K, with the thought that the die shrink (and 3.5-3.9 stock at 77w TDP) would lead to ridiculous OC-ability.
I really do not want to go with external radiators, and I would like to stick with the HAF-X case, if possible. I also have an Antec Twelve Hundred v3 that holds my media server (Xeon E3-1235, 16GB ECC 1333, Asus C206 Mobo, and 10 2TB Hitachi 7k3000's in RAID-6) and my plan had been to transfer my current gaming rig to this case, while getting a rack-mountable case for the server.
Thoughts?

The hexacore is honestly worth it with a higher end crossfire/ sli system. Having the pci lanes is key which is where the 1155 platform falls short and being able to have 64 GB of ram is a game changer. Even 32gb will allow for a RAM disk which will blow you mind. If you thought SSDs then you are sadly mistaken. I'm seeing 7000mbs speeds on the ram disk compared to 600mbs on my ssd. No comparison. 4.8 will be no problem with a 10C delta. You will want to watercool the mobo tho since there is a HUGE bump is stability in x79 compared to any other platform since especially on the RIVE there is a ton of heat produced at the voltage regulators. Keep in mind tho that not ALL chips can do 5.0 stable even if you have sufficient cooling, but nearly all setups on water can do 4.8 without issue (all-in-one coolers don't count). The key is chip degradation once you get to this point. Most setups need 1.45v to hit 4.8, 1.5v to hit 5.0 and all the way to 1.65v to hit 5.4/5.5. Anything over 1.4v is guaranteed to degrade the chip according to both intel and ASUS. The sweet spot at keeping your CPU long lasting and handle everything you need is the ~4.5 range for 24/7 use. One caveat is the Intel Overclocking warranty which is completely worth the $35. It'll award you one replacement for an abused chip, but ONLY one.
 
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3x Hardware Labs Black Ice GTX 560  EK Multi Res 400 2x Hardware Labs Black Ice GTX 280 Hardware Labs Black Ice GTX 140 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Dual Uber MCP655 28x Noiseblocker PK-3  Bitspower Compression Fittings Lamptron FC-8 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Koolance QDCs and Accessories Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit Samsung UD590 4K Razer Blackwidow Ultimate 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Custum wired EVGA NEX 1500 Custom Danger Den Double Wide Tower 29 Rat 7 Razer Goliathus XL 
Other
Bitfenix Alchemy Connect Lighting 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 c0 @ 4.2 Ghz w/ 1.4v max 4.6ghz @1.55v w... Asus P6T6 WS Revolution w/ koolance nb/sb+mosfe... EVGA GTX 480 x3 w/ Koolance Vid-NX480 12gb Corsair Dominator 1600mhz w/ MIPS Ramcooler 6 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
1.5 Tb Seagate barracuda x3 LG Bluray Burner 2x SR1 360, RX 360, SR1 240, SR1 120, 2x MCP355... Win 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Samsung t260 x3 Razer Black Widow Ultimate Silverstone st1200 Mountain Mods U2UFO w/ MM Pedestal Addition 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Razer Mamba Razer Destructor X-Fi Fata1ity Logitech Z-5500 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7 3840QM 650ti 8GB 1333mhz DDR3 256gb ssd 
OSMonitorPowerCase
OSX Mountain Lion Retina Display 85w Magsafe Power Adapter Aluminum Unibody 
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Project Atlantis
(16 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3960X w/ Custom .925 solid silver base EK Su... Asus Rampage IV Extreme w/ EK full cover Tri SLi EVGA GTX TITAN SC w/ EK full cover & Ba... 64 GB Dominator w/ MIPS Ram Cooler 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
2x 2TB Western Digital Caviar Black 6x 2TB Western Digital Caviar Green 240GB OCZ Revodrive 3 PCI-E SSD  Plextor B940SA 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
3x Hardware Labs Black Ice GTX 560  EK Multi Res 400 2x Hardware Labs Black Ice GTX 280 Hardware Labs Black Ice GTX 140 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Dual Uber MCP655 28x Noiseblocker PK-3  Bitspower Compression Fittings Lamptron FC-8 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Koolance QDCs and Accessories Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit Samsung UD590 4K Razer Blackwidow Ultimate 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Custum wired EVGA NEX 1500 Custom Danger Den Double Wide Tower 29 Rat 7 Razer Goliathus XL 
Other
Bitfenix Alchemy Connect Lighting 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 c0 @ 4.2 Ghz w/ 1.4v max 4.6ghz @1.55v w... Asus P6T6 WS Revolution w/ koolance nb/sb+mosfe... EVGA GTX 480 x3 w/ Koolance Vid-NX480 12gb Corsair Dominator 1600mhz w/ MIPS Ramcooler 6 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
1.5 Tb Seagate barracuda x3 LG Bluray Burner 2x SR1 360, RX 360, SR1 240, SR1 120, 2x MCP355... Win 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Samsung t260 x3 Razer Black Widow Ultimate Silverstone st1200 Mountain Mods U2UFO w/ MM Pedestal Addition 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Razer Mamba Razer Destructor X-Fi Fata1ity Logitech Z-5500 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7 3840QM 650ti 8GB 1333mhz DDR3 256gb ssd 
OSMonitorPowerCase
OSX Mountain Lion Retina Display 85w Magsafe Power Adapter Aluminum Unibody 
  hide details  
Reply
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