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[iGG] Fans Who Purchased Mass Effect 3 Via Amazon Are Getting Full Refunds - Page 21

post #201 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Oh wow the antagonism is strong with this one.
I'll put some things to right for you, though:
  1. Yeah, if you'd been keeping up with the developments on this issue you'd know exactly what peoples problem with it is. However, you're in with the group that hasn't even read into the subject and just reacting to a headline.
  2. Skyrim is probably going to get GOTY or possibly Battlefield 3, not Mass Effect 3 - quote me on that. thumb.gif
  3. I've already posted a link to the quotes and claims made by Bioware. thumb.gif
  4. The issue is false advertisement, I believe I've gotten this wrong. It's something to do with what's being planned. Amazon offer a 30 day return policy on videogames in the US http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/10085608/2#10086772
  5. What's with the McDonald's argument? Straw man, much? thumb.gif
Oh yeah and finally, where is your proof that the poster isn't in the UK (sounds very much like he is to me) which invalidates my "arguements" ?
EDIT:
I did us all the favour of checking this. He's in Seattle and his wife is a Games Designer. tongue.gif

I own Mass Effect 3 and have played through the entirety of the game as well as progressing through multiplayer. I know what problem people have with this game.

While there were other great games released this year already and late last year, Mass Effect 3 will still at least be a candidate for GotY, though that's not really a concern here.

The quotes made by BioWare are from an interview with one of the developers during development - a cycle which can change the game at any given point in time and of which BioWare is not responsible for any unhappy customers which didn't like the way it turned out.

As I said before, Amazon does this completely out of choice, not because they have to by law.

The McDonald's argument coincides with the other useless analogies presented in this thread. The movie Waiting... has a great quote for this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan from Waiting... 
Ma'am, I don't doubt the steak was over-cooked, but did you have to eat it all before you complained about it?
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post #202 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitsoldier View Post

I own Mass Effect 3 and have played through the entirety of the game as well as progressing through multiplayer. I know what problem people have with this game.
While there were other great games released this year already and late last year, Mass Effect 3 will still at least be a candidate for GotY, though that's not really a concern here.
The quotes made by BioWare are from an interview with one of the developers during development - a cycle which can change the game at any given point in time and of which BioWare is not responsible for any unhappy customers which didn't like the way it turned out.
As I said before, Amazon does this completely out of choice, not because they have to by law.
The McDonald's argument coincides with the other useless analogies presented in this thread. The movie Waiting... has a great quote for this:

Well, in the UK they have to by law smile.gif

The quotes are from Bioware interviews (plural) spanning over some time.Bioware actually is responsible for all unhappy customers, especially in this volume because it relfects on them as a games company and their publishers will want to know why people are not happy and refunding their games.

Development can change mid-production (DICE said the main focus was on PC for BF3, then later changed that to console) however when numerous claims have been made and they don't add up there's a problem.

The McDonalds thing really, really doesn't make any sense. It would be more appropriate to say perhaps DICE said they were having 64 player servers (as they did) and then upon release gamers had to wait until they got home and opened and installed the product and played all the singleplayer before moving onto the multiplayer only to find out that it actually wasn't true at all and it's limited to 32 players. People would be angry and seek a refund because they were told it would be 64 player and it turns out it wasn't. The amount of time played is totally irrelevant. Something tells me people would still have a problem with that (wrongly, I add) and trash those that complained telling them it was their responsibility to invent a time machine and "research" the game themselves. It's the gamers fault for, err, whatever, and they shouldn't get a refund.
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post #203 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Well, in the UK they have to by law smile.gif
The quotes are from Bioware interviews (plural) spanning over some time.Bioware actually is responsible for all unhappy customers, especially in this volume because it relfects on them as a games company and their publishers will want to know why people are not happy and refunding their games.
Development can change mid-production (DICE said the main focus was on PC for BF3, then later changed that to console) however when numerous claims have been made and they don't add up there's a problem.
The McDonalds thing really, really doesn't make any sense. It would be more appropriate to say perhaps DICE said they were having 64 player servers (as they did) and then upon release gamers had to wait until they got home and opened and installed the product and played all the singleplayer before moving onto the multiplayer only to find out that it actually wasn't true at all and it's limited to 32 players. People would be angry and seek a refund because they were told it would be 64 player and it turns out it wasn't. The amount of time played is totally irrelevant. Something tells me people would still have a problem with that (wrongly, I add) and trash those that complained telling them it was their responsibility to invent a time machine and "research" the game themselves. It's the gamers fault for, err, whatever, and they shouldn't get a refund.

If you're comparing it to games, it would more accurately be along the lines of the Duke Nukem Forever. There was a ton of hype built up with the developers promising amazing awesome super-cool rad shoot-'em-up guns-ablaze action, but sadly, that game was just terrible, terrible, terrible - coincidentally, DNF has a higher rating than Mass Effect 3 now, when they should not even be on the same scale. To my recollection, BioWare devs never actually game specifics regarding the endings - more along the lines of "Your decisions impact the endings, which are unique and new." It shouldn't be the same as something as specific as 64 players vs. 32 players.

I won't say anything about the "research beforehand" argument as a lot of the time, that's simply impossible due to beta testers being under NDA and the full game not being released for review before the actual release date. It can be considered when you are buying a game a little late in the game (no pun intended) or when buying used, but not as a day-one purchase.
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post #204 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitsoldier View Post

If you're comparing it to games, it would more accurately be along the lines of the Duke Nukem Forever. There was a ton of hype built up with the developers promising amazing awesome super-cool rad shoot-'em-up guns-ablaze action, but sadly, that game was just terrible, terrible, terrible - coincidentally, DNF has a higher rating than Mass Effect 3 now, when they should not even be on the same scale. To my recollection, BioWare devs never actually game specifics regarding the endings - more along the lines of "Your decisions impact the endings, which are unique and new." It shouldn't be the same as something as specific as 64 players vs. 32 players.
I won't say anything about the "research beforehand" argument as a lot of the time, that's simply impossible due to beta testers being under NDA and the full game not being released for review before the actual release date. It can be considered when you are buying a game a little late in the game (no pun intended) or when buying used, but not as a day-one purchase.

Duke Nukem didn't promise anything that wasn't entirely subjective and therefore doesn't work. It was hyped as a super awesome shooter guy game and it was a shooter guy game. Whether it was super awesome was subjective and opinion based. If someone didn't like Duke they're SOL because it didn't break any promises made (err, except release dates!) My 32 vs 64 players was an example and is entirely relevant to the story. The fact that you might have played the game all the way through the SP before finding out there were inaccuracies in what was promised in the MP. One of the key arguments against that people spew is the fact he finished the game (not explicitly stated anywhere on the guys Bioware thread) which is absolutely irrelevant because in this situation you can't know until you get there.

No, not you but Masked has tried to hammer this point home ad nausuem that people are apparently supposed to research first when as you say it's damn near impossible to do this. It would be impossible to know for yourself that the ending was weak and didn't at all include many of the things said in the interviews without having played all the game. That's pretty much the only research available. You can bet a lot of people aren't buying it now based on those other users complaining about it (and equally many people will still buy it and not care at all, which is just fine too!). So people will be doing their own research now just as they've always done but a lot of day one purchasers don't have that ability - something Masked totally overlooked (like many things).



What you might not understand is I'm with you on this, mostly. Too right, that if someone just didn't enjoy the game then they shouldn't be able to return it. But that isn't the case here...
Edited by Rubers - 3/21/12 at 2:49pm
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post #205 of 228
The primary reason I returned my PC copy of the CE was because of the bait and switch with MP. Bioware effectively not only falsely claimed the game could be completed fully without MP but obliterated any replay value I might have had with their craptastic ending.

At this point, it doesn't matter. Bioware's pisspoor PR and continued denial of the actual facts is going to send them down the same path as every other dev house EA swallowed.
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post #206 of 228
Rubers stop being silly you dont have a leg to stand on here, its just gamers whining, and you are standing up for them l:o
post #207 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycius View Post

The primary reason I returned my PC copy of the CE was because of the bait and switch with MP. Bioware effectively not only falsely claimed the game could be completed fully without MP but obliterated any replay value I might have had with their craptastic ending.
At this point, it doesn't matter. Bioware's pisspoor PR and continued denial of the actual facts is going to send them down the same path as every other dev house EA swallowed.
This is the fella from the article!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Projector View Post

Rubers stop being silly you dont have a leg to stand on here, its just gamers whining, and you are standing up for them l:o

3 reps from my posts in this thread from 3 different people say otherwise!
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post #208 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycius View Post

The primary reason I returned my PC copy of the CE was because of the bait and switch with MP. Bioware effectively not only falsely claimed the game could be completed fully without MP but obliterated any replay value I might have had with their craptastic ending.
At this point, it doesn't matter. Bioware's pisspoor PR and continued denial of the actual facts is going to send them down the same path as every other dev house EA swallowed.

The game can be fully completed without ever having to step foot in multiplayer. The only thing is, you won't be seeing the extra (read: not necessary) scene at the end of one of the endings.
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post #209 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

This is the fella from the article!
3 reps from my posts in this thread from 3 different people say otherwise!

A lot of rep, from a lot of people, is due to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
Quote:
Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias, myside bias or verification bias) is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses.
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post #210 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

A lot of rep, from a lot of people, is due to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
Quote:
Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias, myside bias or verification bias) is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses.

That's what rep is about! Either someone helped you and you rep them or you rep something you liked (against the rules I think?) I don't think those people posting in blocks huge letters or totally disregarding totally valid points got any rep (I was watching their counters tongue.gif) for their part in this. At least I've done this is the most civil manner possible. One rep was for telling one guy to read after it was obvious he wasn't actually reading my posts.

Again, I'm totally with everyone else on this. Refunding a game because you didn't like it is BS. Refunding it because you feel you've been nickel and dimed is entirely right imho.

Hell, the original poster on the Bioware forums has joined up to put in his two pence in now. Turns out he's a developer also.
Edited by Rubers - 3/21/12 at 3:13pm
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