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[The Inquirer] Nvidia's GTX680 gets thrashed by AMD's mid-range Radeon HD 7870 in GPU compute - Page 17

post #161 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deagle50ae View Post

Nvidia said, a long time ago, that it was going to drop double precision FP on it's consumer guides. If you want an Nvidia card for scientific and engineering reasons, you buy a Quadro card.
This is no surprise at all.

Well I would say it in slightly altered wording. If you need it for engineering or science and must use CUDA for some reason then you will buy Quadro, however, if you are on limited budget (like most academic institutions are) then you buy the best-bang-for-buck you can get away with. So if you are willing to live with OpenCL you might prefer the AMD offerings.

Or you go with the mainstream parts and "code to the iron" if thats an option. Although at that level projects where coding directly to iron is an option the cost of the cards are most likely relatively minor point compared against the development costs of the software.
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post #162 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escatore View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Guys who make millions of dollars a year trading billions of dollars a day do....
Guys who find oil worth billions do...
Guys who want to research to advance humanity's knowledge do...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jprovido View Post

i dont give a **** about them. im in a tech site because I play games. if they make a lot of money like what you say and help humanity then they shouldn't be wasting their times in a tech site arguing about graphics cards to begin with. they should stop wasting their time and make more money
...

Independent of the thread topic, you shouldn't assume that all the people on OCN are gamers. I would say that most of them are tech enthusiasts, and technology can be used to do a hell of a lot more than play games!

This^

Also to those who stated that you do not care about compute, why are you even posting in this thread?
 
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post #163 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biorganic View Post

This^
Also to those who stated that you do not care about compute, why are you even posting in this thread?

Most of them believe that this is a cry out from AMD fanboys as a way of saying the GTX 680 is inadequate or inferior in some way.

I think the gaming benchmarks speak for themselves; the GTX 680 is the superior solution for gaming. My question is how does triple the CUDA core count translate into worse compute performance than a GTX 580? I think that's what most people on this thread are so puzzled about.
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post #164 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biorganic View Post

This^
Also to those who stated that you do not care about compute, why are you even posting in this thread?

Most of them believe that this is a cry out from AMD fanboys as a way of saying the GTX 680 is inadequate or inferior in some way.

I think the gaming benchmarks speak for themselves; the GTX 680 is the superior solution for gaming. My question is how does triple the CUDA core count translate into worse compute performance than a GTX 580? I think that's what most people on this thread are so puzzled about.

Agreed, I am not disputing the gaming superiority or awesome efficiency of the 680. The die size:performance is amazing. Doesn't Nvidia always gimp the consumer models? Even so, I guess it is odd that this under-performs (from what we have seen) relative to a GTX 580.

Edit: ^Compute performance relative to 580
Edited by Biorganic - 3/21/12 at 7:56am
 
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post #165 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deagle50ae View Post

Nvidia said, a long time ago, that it was going to drop double precision FP on it's consumer guides. If you want an Nvidia card for scientific and engineering reasons, you buy a Quadro card.
This is no surprise at all.

well people are acting like 680 will suck, i think this is far from the point, and i dont think it will be slower than 580 in compute, maybe just not so much better
if you look at benchmarks you will notice gtx580 already holds its own in compute, while amd vliw4 held its own in graphical tasks, this round it seems both camps improved on what they are lacking rather than just keep on building no their strength, and if you ask me I think their architectures are becoming very similar.
580 had hot clocks with cores running at like 750mhz and shaders running at 1500mhz, to be able to reach such a high frequency they have to be designed for that, now nvidia is doing without the hot clocks, but one interesting thing they did is that dynamic clocks, so if compute is needed cores will clock down and the shaders will clock up, so technically i dont think they totaly got away from hot clocks, just implemented a much more efficient way to work with both according to tdp. remember how much fermi consumed energy and if you ask me it wasnt all that efficient, it was fast but not very efficient, mostly because it was clocked high enough to be good at graphical tasks, and by default that made the shader clock massive at 1500hmz or so, being clocked at that all the time consumed alot of energy even tho most of the time that performance is not utilized

now either way tho, even if nvidia matches amds 7970, it will still be better overall because it has slightly lower tdp, and is slightly smaller, tho its transistor density is a good deal higher

the thing that im interested in the most tho, is how the kepler cores stack up against amds without the dynamic clocks, i think we will see such scenarios when hd7970 and gtx 680 are compared with overclocking, because at such case both will be go against eachother at their peak, and at that point the dynamic clocks will have little to no affect.
post #166 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Most of them believe that this is a cry out from AMD fanboys as a way of saying the GTX 680 is inadequate or inferior in some way.
I think the gaming benchmarks speak for themselves; the GTX 680 is the superior solution for gaming. My question is how does triple the CUDA core count translate into worse compute performance than a GTX 580? I think that's what most people on this thread are so puzzled about.

Is there any driver component to speak of in GPU compute benchmarks? Because inadequate drivers would be a good explanation for the performance shortfall relative to the 580. Either that, or they have undervolted(?) all those CUDA cores to reduce power consumption but keep consumer performance in line with the competition, leaving headroom for future ticks forward on the same architecture? (I'm speaking completely out of my rearend on that, of course)
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post #167 of 186
yessss i knew gtx 680 was a bust! smile.gifsmile.gif can't wait to run openCL apps on my AMD card, sooo fun
post #168 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen00 View Post

I beg to differ, In my college engineering department we use nothing but AMD, and are more than pleased with it.

Which OpenCL powered software do you use?

Most of the CAD software in the standard university student packets use CUDA acceleration. Do you actually use the GPUs for CAD software on college?

Matlab -> CUDA
Mathematica -> CUDA
Synopsys TCAD -> CUDA
Acceleware: FDTD Solver & EM -> CUDA

Programming in CUDA is even an optional course for CS majors, I don't see how AMD cards are useful for most engineering CAD software. I'm not talking about cute little GeForce and Radeon cards btw. but dual Tesla C2070s and Quadro 6000s in WS. The other PCs in the hall use FX1800s. Especially since a lot of the expensive software packets need to run in Linux, while AMD GPU drivers and Linux well...
post #169 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlademaster01 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen00 View Post

I beg to differ, In my college engineering department we use nothing but AMD, and are more than pleased with it.

Which OpenCL powered software do you use?

Most of the CAD software in the standard university student packets use CUDA acceleration. Do you actually use the GPUs for CAD software on college?

Matlab -> CUDA
Mathematica -> CUDA
Synopsys TCAD -> CUDA
Acceleware: FDTD Solver & EM -> CUDA

Programming in CUDA is even an optional course for CS majors, I don't see how AMD cards are useful for most engineering CAD software. I'm not talking about cute little GeForce and Radeon cards btw. but dual Tesla C2070s and Quadro 6000s in WS. The other PCs in the hall use FX1800s. Especially since a lot of the expensive software packets need to run in Linux, while AMD GPU drivers and Linux well...

In all honesty there is full support for AutoDesk (3DS included) suite and Solidworks on AMD/ATI cards, requiring special drivers, but they take full advantage of FirePro hardware. I get what you are saying though, its surprising how well CUDA has picked up in academia.
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post #170 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

In all honesty there is full support for AutoDesk (3DS included) suite and Solidworks on AMD/ATI cards, requiring special drivers, but they take full advantage of FirePro hardware. I get what you are saying though, its surprising how well CUDA has picked up in academia.

I know there's software with support for FirePro cards, but you're not going to spend all that money on HW for support in a minority of them.
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