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post #41 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

EXT2 and EXT3 are obsolete IMO, now
Far from it. ext3 is still used lots on enterprise systems and many people still use ext2 for embedded devices or flash drives. It's only really the desktop market that uses ext4. With time that will change, but ext4 doesn't offer any benefit for embedded devices and is only starting to reaching the age where it's considered stable enough for mission critical servers (enterprise systems tend to run a few versions behind on file systems for data stability reasons)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

that it's EXT4 and I didn't know about EXT4 read, I'm guessing it's one of the very new features.
Quite the opposite as ext is backwards compatible so it wouldn't be a new feature, it would be a legacy feature.
post #42 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Yet plenty of people still use them tongue.gif But I was just pointing out, it is possible to read/write ext. Since you specifically said "Windows will never be able to recognize Linux partitions" Which it can recognize them, writes to most of them. And Windows will likely be able to write to Ext4 with time. And there's plenty of other tools to adds the ext drivers, so if Ext2Fsd doesn't become live again, someone else will figure it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

Far from it. ext3 is still used lots on enterprise systems and many people still use ext2 for embedded devices or flash drives. It's only really the desktop market that uses ext4. With time that will change, but ext4 doesn't offer any benefit for embedded devices and is only starting to reaching the age where it's considered stable enough for mission critical servers (enterprise systems tend to run a few versions behind on file systems for data stability reasons)
Quite the opposite as ext is backwards compatible so it wouldn't be a new feature, it would be a legacy feature.

No, because of new implementations in EXT4 you cannot mount it as EXT3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ext4
Code:
ext3 is partially forward compatible with ext4. That is, ext4 can be mounted as ext3 (using "ext3" as the filesystem type when mounting). However, if the ext4 partition uses extents (a major new feature of ext4), then the ability to mount as ext3 is lost.

One of the key reasons moving to EXT4 is extents. It's been known that you can mount EXT4 as EXT3 but since extents is generally turned on by default you can't. You would have to format it with extents off.

EXT3 may be used in enterprise, (most) embedded device read support is dependent on the embedded device. I don't talk about those other markets here anyways, this is primarily a desktop forum and so I'm going to talk as if the subject retains to that unless otherwise stated. Also, since I figured this is for a desktop, it wouldn't really be advisable to use EXT3 when you can use EXT4 and just use NTFS read/write. Windows EXT support is annoying to say the least.
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post #43 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Also, since I figured this is for a desktop, it wouldn't really be advisable to use EXT3 when you can use EXT4 and just use NTFS read/write. Windows EXT support is annoying to say the least.

I still prefer Ext3 over Ext4 even for my stuff. Don't see why it wouldn't be advisable to use Ext3, just because Ext4 is out.

Windows Ext support is no where near annoying these days. Not for 2/3 at least;
1) Install Ext2Fsd
2) Reboot
3) Asign drive letter to partition
4) Enjoy

Takes less than 5 minutes and you're up and going. Even my gf's netbook being as slow as it is had no problem installing it, so I could grab my files without having to kick her off of Windows.
post #44 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

No, because of new implementations in EXT4 you cannot mount it as EXT3.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ext4
Code:
ext3 is partially forward compatible with ext4. That is, ext4 can be mounted as ext3 (using "ext3" as the filesystem type when mounting). However, if the ext4 partition uses extents (a major new feature of ext4), then the ability to mount as ext3 is lost.
One of the key reasons moving to EXT4 is extents. It's been known that you can mount EXT4 as EXT3 but since extents is generally turned on by default you can't. You would have to format it with extents off.
I said mounting ext4 with ext3/2 drivers would be through legacy support. Turning off extents would be doing just that. So I'm not really getting what you're supposed to be correcting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

EXT3 may be used in enterprise, (most) embedded device read support is dependent on the embedded device. I don't talk about those other markets here anyways, this is primarily a desktop forum and so I'm going to talk as if the subject retains to that unless otherwise stated. Also, since I figured this is for a desktop, it wouldn't really be advisable to use EXT3 when you can use EXT4 and just use NTFS read/write. Windows EXT support is annoying to say the least.
This isn't primarily a desktop forum and you said ext2 and 3 were obsolete, which they are not.

Also what's with the blunt attitude? You complained before about how condescending some people on here are to you, yet every time we try and chat as equals you dismiss our comments and then talk down to us. rolleyes.gif
post #45 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

Also what's with the blunt attitude? You complained before about how condescending some people on here are to you, yet every time we try and chat as equals you dismiss our comments and then talk down to us. rolleyes.gif

After the last thread where you 2 got into it, I think I'm done with this one. He's just seems like the type to not want to be wrong and will argue until the day he dies against it. I've said what I wanted to say, you've said what you had to say, and he'll argue against us every step of the way. So no point.

Edit: Oh wait, that was earlier in this thread rolleyes.gif
post #46 of 77
Thread Starter 

Um why don't you two get a room somewhere? I know you may have been trying to help originally but now it's just annoying. Shrak thanks for the help again, I'm still having issues but I'll make another thread if I need more help. Let me know if there's anything I might be able to help with just ask if you're unsure.

 

     
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post #47 of 77
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Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

I said mounting ext4 with ext3/2 drivers would be through legacy support. Turning off extents would be doing just that. So I'm not really getting what you're supposed to be correcting?
This isn't primarily a desktop forum and you said ext2 and 3 were obsolete, which they are not.
Also what's with the blunt attitude? You complained before about how condescending some people on here are to you, yet every time we try and chat as equals you dismiss our comments and then talk down to us. rolleyes.gif

If you use extents you CANNOT MOUNT AS EXT3 PERIOD. Extents do something that breaks legacy EXT support. It was one of the big debates, along with a few others but I don't remember them all. I just know that you can no longer mount EXT4 as EXT3 and extents are why.

[edit]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

I still prefer Ext3 over Ext4 even for my stuff. Don't see why it wouldn't be advisable to use Ext3, just because Ext4 is out.
Windows Ext support is no where near annoying these days. Not for 2/3 at least;
1) Install Ext2Fsd
2) Reboot
3) Asign drive letter to partition
4) Enjoy
Takes less than 5 minutes and you're up and going. Even my gf's netbook being as slow as it is had no problem installing it, so I could grab my files without having to kick her off of Windows.

Not so fun on 64bit, did they get driver signing finally? While I know a lot of the world uses 32bit, I still wouldn't suggest it.
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post #48 of 77
I've not used anything but 64bit windows since the xp days tongue.gif

Ext2Fsd has always worked for my with no hassle.
post #49 of 77
Hmm, well things change.. Either way EXT4 can't be read by those programs, so it would be useless to me anyways....


http://kernelnewbies.org/Ext4
Code:
2.4. Extents

The traditionally Unix-derived filesystems like Ext3 use an indirect block mapping scheme to keep track of each block used for the blocks corresponding to the data of a file. This is inefficient for large 
files, specially on large file delete and truncate operations, because the mapping keeps a entry for every single block, and big files have many blocks -> huge mappings, slow to handle. Modern 
filesystems use a different approach called "extents". An extent is basically a bunch of contiguous physical blocks. It basically says "The data is in the next n blocks". For example, a 100 MB file can be 
allocated into a single extent of that size, instead of needing to create the indirect mapping for 25600 blocks (4 KB per block). Huge files are split in several extents. Extents improve the performance and 
also help to reduce the fragmentation, since an extent encourages continuous layouts on the disk. 
Code:
3.3. Mount an existing Ext3 filesystem with Ext4 without changing the format

You can mount an existing Ext3 filesystem with Ext4 but without using features that change the disk format. This means you will be able to mount your filesystem with Ext3 again. You can mount an 
existing Ext3 filesystem with "mount -t ext4 /dev/yourpartition /mnt". Doing this without having done the conversion process described in the previous point will force Ext4 to not use the features that 
change the disk format, such as extents, it will use only the features that don't change the file format, such as mballoc or delayed allocation. You'll be able to mount your filesystem as Ext3 again. But 
obviously you'll be losing the advantages of the Ext4 features that don't get used... 

More specifically the use of extents to change the physical file system in how it handles data, causing EXT3 to no longer be able to read the EXT4 under legacy options. There ya go, this is the crap I'm talking about. When I say something, such as EXT4 can't be mounted as EXT3, I mean it.
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post #50 of 77
Ext4 CAN be read. It CANT be written to. With Ext2Fsd and ExtReader and Ext2~ some odd I can't remember, and plenty others.

So accessing files from Windows on any Ext right now is as easy as pie. Writing to 2/3 works flawlessly. Write to 4 should be underway.
Edited by Shrak - 3/26/12 at 9:37pm
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