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Yamakasi Catleap Q270 (100hz guaranteed).  

Poll Results: Would you be interested in buying a Yamakasi Catleap Q270 (100hz guarenteed)

 
  • 87% (726)
    Yes
  • 2% (18)
    No
  • 10% (88)
    Maybe
832 Total Votes  
post #1 of 1131
Thread Starter 
This is not an actual group buy.
Is it even possible to arrange group buys here at OCN?


I got a request from one of the Korean yamakasi sellers, they would like to make a special edition, maybe even "Overclock.net" edition monitor.

But they need to know ~ how many will be willing to buy this! the 120hz rated PCB has been taken out of production. But if the enquery for it is big, they will start producing them again.

If you have no idea what this monitor is / is capable of take a look at these threads.
yamakasi catleap monitor club
Yamakasi/Achiva-shiman thread jpinard's facts and explanation about this monitor (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpinard View Post

This is a long explanation of how this excellent, low-cost display happened and why this higher Hz model matters so much for most gamers who play any FPS, Simulator, RTS, or many MMORG’s redface.gif. This is very wordy, somewhat repetitive in places, but the goal is to outline everything about this crazy computer monitor market. If I happen to have any details wrong please let me know, but this should be educational for anyone who hasn't read a FAQ on each subject. (note: I purposely left MVA references out to keep explanations simpler) Therefore based on the repeated questions I’ve seen it's important that people understand the how & why these displays are cheaper than other high-end displays and why they cannot be super pixel/color perfect like an Apple Cinema Display: smile.gif

Here we go!

LG makes the vast majority of IPS panels used in LCD/LED monitors. They make a tens of thousands 27" panels (JUST the panel with no connectors or guts) and they are sampled for quality. Those that appear perfect go to Apple, HP, Dell, Hazro, Asus, Viewsonic and several other big companies for their high-end displays. These are rated as A+ panels. Those that are not perfect, but still good, go to a 2nd party monitor maker (usually South Korean) like Yamasaki, PC bank, Achieva, Crossover. They add the connector circuit board, input plugs, speakers, OSD hardware, frame, scalars, and anti-glare just as top tier manufacturers do.

As these Korean manufacturers are not high-end display companies they often forgo the extra crap Dell & Apple would put into their monitors ie. an OSD which is on-screen display functions for changing color, orientation, size, position, etc. NOT having the OSD is very inconvenient for most users, but fantastic for gamers as any extra components attached to the PCB creates extra input lag. For gamers who want the ultimate in responsiveness (on an IPS display), they usually need to find one with the fewest extras. Even adding a single HMDI port to the standard DVI-D port will add some lag. TN panels have better response times regardless of the amenities, but one greatly sacrifices the image quality by going TN not to mention the poor viewing angles. Regarding “extras” the terrible anti-glare coatings you see are not done by LG when the basic panel is made. Once again this is done in the secondary manufacturing step by the people who sell these panels (Dell, Apple, and Asus). Since the South Korean companies who sell the A- graded panels want to keep costs down they do not put anti-glare coatings on the display. This is fantastic as it gives users the choice. For those of us that love glossy, we do nothing with these Korean displays. If you hate glossy, there are plenty of options to add your own anti-glare that will undoubtedly be better than the terrible solution Dell uses on their own IPS monitors.

So besides above, what's the big deal about this particular monitor? Basically for gamers - THIS IS THE HOLY GRAIL of MONITORS. For years we've wanted an IPS display that is the right size, with the best colors, the least amount of ghosting, the best responsiveness, and the least amount of lag, the perfect pixel pitch, and the most possible "stuff" on the screen at once. With the primary two options we’ve had, TN vs. IPS, you could not get all of this on one display... until the Catleap v.2b. So lets make a general question & answer list of the points I just made.

* Why is 27" the best size for a gaming monitor?
For immersion, you want a screen that fills the front of your desk, without you, the user, having to manually look side-to-side to see everything on the screen. 26" and 27" monitors sitting on a desk are the perfect size.

* What's this about ghosting and lag?
For anyone except gamers who play games with motion it's not really an issue. But if you play faster action games, MMORGS, even many RT's it is of critical importance. Only TN displays in the past could truly cut out ghosting, blurring, and screen lag by running at a higher refresh rate and using special overdrive utilities. So IPS has the best picture quality, but the worst gaming experience. Worse if you have someone sitting next to you as you play on a TN panel, everything they see is washed out, and depending on the angle, sometimes nearly illegible. Adding a scalar and OSD (on-screen displays) usually increases lag on both IPS and TN, so the fact these are not available (due to the increase of cost) in the secondary Korean manufacturers is a plus. But it does make color calibration more difficult as you have to do it through your video card. Furthermore, if you use a non-native resolution on these Korean models you must use the scalar from your video card as they're not an option on the monitor itself. That is generally no big deal though. Once again, for gaming it's better the display doesn't have a built-in scalar.

* Why does this panel (IPS) have better colors than the competition?
IPS is better than TN (active matrix displays) for a lot of reasons I won't go into because it doesn’t pertain here. But because of the way the panels are designed and the pixels light IPS has better colors and looks much better in space games due to blacks being deeper.
* What about Screen Resolution and pixel pitch?
Many displays that are 27" are only 1920x1080 - the number of pixels horizontally and vertically. If you look at a monitor that is only 24" in size but displays 1920x1080 it is MUCH sharper than a 27" monitor of the same resolution. Why are people so gaga over the new iPad Retina display? - same thing. Way more pixels on the screen vs. the older iPads makes the display that much sharper. Being IPS and not TN makes the colors and pictures POP from straight on or any angle. A 27" monitor running the 2560x1440 has pixels that are very close together creating a very sharp image with text that is not as microscopic like you’d have on a comparable 24"monitortrying to show 2560x1440 pixels.

* Why do Dell and other tier-1 display producers go nuts on their Anti-glare coatings?
Because they don't want to deal with business’s and other whiny people complaining about glare & lighting issues in the workplace - ie. Laziness and cost reduction. Adding those anti-glare coatings costs more than not, but dealing with more tech calls and returns is much more. So the easy way out is to just put the anti-glare on everything no matter how much it ruins the images. A good company would offer a version with anti-glare coatings and one without - but apparently that's too much effort for most.

* “The most Stuff on-screen”?
That just means running 2560x1440. If you're playing a flight simulator you will have almost twice the view someone else would have. In a flight simulator this means more of your airplane cockpit, more scenery, more peripheral vision, more situational awareness. In an RTS, FPS or MMORG it means you see more on the screen than your competitor. Someone running at 1400x900 is at a massive disadvantage vs. someone running 2560x1440. Imagine putting a box over your head and looking through a cutout only 1' square vs. having a clear unobstructed view. That puts it in perspective.

So you may be asking, why isn't anyone making these “Holy Grail” displays if gamers want them so bad? The answer takes us back to how panels are made and distributed. You have one company, LG, which makes the majority of the world’s panels. The exact distribution of these base displays is something I have not researched but I know there are direct sales, a lottery, an auction, and “junk sales” based on LG’s initial (I’m guessing very quick) quality check as they probably don’t have time to run 50,000 panels for a week at a time. Since making panels is still an imprecise and imperfect process, primary producers pay much more to receive the more limited A+ displays. Secondary companies do not have the funds to compete in this respect and LG may even have production agreements that say no A+ panels can go to non-top tier companies. When Apple, Dell, and HP get these panels they add all the extras you’ve come to expect (whether wanted or not). The most beautiful monitors out there, the Apple Cinema display are not meant for gamers so Apple has no interest in fine-tuning input lag or increasing refresh rates. This is where Yamasaki, PC bank, Achieva, & Crossover come in. They buy the A- panels from LG that Apple, HP, Dell don’t want, slap them in a bezel, add a stand, add a circuit board with connectors and presto - you have cheaper Apple Cinema Display. But… where does the higher refresh rate come in that we mentioned earlier, and is driving this poll and curiosity?

A higher refresh rate makes your mouse movements smoother by updating the screen 100x per second vs. the standard 60x per second. It makes you more accurate, the game "feels" more responsive because technically it is - especially with a higher DPI mouse. Running extremely high DPI mice, on an IPS screen in an FPS has been very frustrating (compared to old tube monitors) because what you feel or should see doesn’t exactly match your mouse movements and results in a feeling of delay... like running a flight simulator at settings way higher than your computer can handle. You must anticipate what will happen vs. reacting to what's going on. You can get used to it, but it's not optimal. Now Yamasaki, the company who made the earlier Catleap did not intend to make an IPS display that can do more than 60 Hz. As far as I can tell, they used a more expensive circuit board than they'd planned on, and some enterprising souls on Overclocking.net decided to see if it could handle more than the default 60 Hz and were stunned that it could. Yamasaki has no idea this panel could do that (or that it would be in demand) so they replaced it with the circuit board they'd intended to reduce costs by a few bucks. As soon as the idea these cheaper, 27" IPS displays had the possibility to do, what is only offered by much more expensive TN displays the overclocking and modding pc gamers latched on trying to find any way to either get a replacement board for the panel or have Yamasaki go back and make more of this variant... hence this thread.

I hope this helps outline why this particular display is so important to gamers and why many hardware & overclocking forums have a disproportionate amount of posts about new IPS displays & 120 HZ TN monitors. We've been waiting... wanting for a display with the best features of both panel technologies for over a decade and for a breif moment a few got their dream monitor. Hopefully, Yamasaki, and if not them, then other manufacturers will take note that is “IS” possible to make an IPS 2560x1440 that does 72Hz-100Hz-120Hz, whatever your video card can put out . This is something many were saying was just a pipedream or totally impossible just a month ago.
(note: even better would be a version with CCFL instead of the backlit LED for those who don’t care about heat, energy consumption, or a super slim design)

Cheers and hope this helped maybe 1 person out there! smile.gif


HyperMatrix's Yamakasi Catleap VIDEO Overclock Guide (100+ hz):
NVIDIA Guide
AMD Guide

HyperMatrix Refresh Rate Proof (for scepticals) (Click to show)

Here is proof from HyperMatrix, that the monitor is actually showing 120-130 hz.

He is running program called Refresh Rate Multi tool.

"RefreshRateMultitool displays a sequence of easily distinguishable images at the rate of your monitor's refresh rate."

You can count the visual bars, at each refresh-rate in these stills he made.

60 hz = 3.5
100 hz = 6
120 hz = 7.5
134 hz = 8

then do a reverse test.... 8 / 134 = 0.0597 * 60hz = 3.582 (witch is the number of bars we actually se at 60hz).
EQUALS = this is running at 134hz.


60 HZ
448

100 HZ
448

120 HZ
448

134 HZ
448


17. April UPDATE

Sorry guys! I haven't been watching the thread closely the last couple of days! (lack of updates)

Last thursday, I was told that they would have a second meeting with witech(the manufacture) friday!
Unfortunately (since we are 11 hrs apart in timezone) I didn't catch him friday or monday!

But i did get a quick word from him today!

They are comming!!

Once again everyone agreed that this will be made, they are currently working on a webshop system. where you will be able to buy the monitor!

As soon I get any more updates on specs and price, i will let you know.


30. March UPDATE

They would like to have seen an even bigger poll, but I told that I think this is the best we can show at OCN alone. And they had to remember OCN is only a small group of customers! With 360 yes votes, I see the first 500 monitors easily sold, and the rest should follow quickly!

Now they are preparing reports, that they have to present to Witech (the manufacture of Yamakasi catleap). So hopefully in the next days, we will have our final answer!
22. March UPDATE
They have to produce a minimum of 1.200 monitors. and would like to se this poll count go even higher! I explained that this is 200 people, whom many are willing to buy several (2-3) monitors, is alot! Especially in this short time, and with this amount of activity and backup.

This is me trying to make my point:
- "well, i dont know how to put this smile.gif but this 200+ yes votes. and 2 no votes. is EXTREME in itself, normally a product like this would NEVER get that kind of attention. your need to realise, that this "request" will keep going, and grow. I'd already say that 1200 is to little. (if I was your boss).
- Overclock.net is just a small fragment of potential customers!
- People are joining from other forums, just to put a vote in this poll
- 500+ will be hard. inside this forum
- This is the biggest opputunity i have ever seen. and i do sales to! i wish i could pull this card!
- you are putting out a "better" product. then 1000$ dell and Apple monitors
- you will drown in orders, more then you do now. alot!
- And all this is not comming from the guy who is about to sell you the product!
레꾸: I'll report tomorrow.

Here is some other things I've got from todays conversation.
  • Panel will be A or A- they dont know yet. A+ is to expensive! 99% glossy like the recent Catleaps
  • We can't get a reengineered PCB! so it will be Single input Dual-DVI
  • Color will be of our choise! only one for all 1200 though! (Black, White, purple, red or something else)
    I think everyone agrees on black??
  • There will be no Branding! (maybe yamakasi logo "Understandable", but nothing else)
  • They are looking into a thinner benzel, but will not promise anything atm.! this might change the overall exterior!
  • Perfect Pixel version will still be available at +60$, this doesn't mean A+ panel! just that the monitor will get checked from the manufactuere! Will add to delivery-time!

Facts about the refresh rate
Neather the LG panel, or anything else is orginally designed to do 100hz, Overclock.net was the place who made even the manufactuere realize that it was possible! (Tech team says they designed PCB for 60hz) This means following!
  1. LG won't make us a custom panel!
  2. The monitor will be rated 60hz
  3. Overclocking will be entirely on your own risk! no-one can be held guilty, if this shorten lifespan on the monitor, or if it causes any damage! (They have to make these therms, since panel isn't ment for anything above 60hz, but we should know of this kind of risk at OCN)
  4. MOST IMPORTANLY It will still overclock!

News on the Price
The price have not been decided yet! The 2B PCBs are more expencive to produce! so it might come in a little higher! but not by much!
they will work on a solution for us to buy outside ebay, and they might be able to come with a better price for us! (without ebay expences ect.)

BUT BUT BUT!
Nothing has yet been decided! hopefully we will have an answer within this week!




The price will stick around ~400$ and it will be shipped directly to you.

Note: AMD/ATI cards is only capable of 85hz because of pixel clock limitations.
Edited by bQvle - 4/17/12 at 12:06pm
post #2 of 1131
It'd need to be zero-defect models though. Is that something they'd be willing to do?
post #3 of 1131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMatrix View Post

It'd need to be zero-defect models though. Is that something they'd be willing to do?

Ill ask him and get back on this.
post #4 of 1131
Yes, and I'd want 2 or 3 of them. Regular price on these shipped on eBay is 360-400. Why is the group buy still 400 dollars? Should the benefit be that it's cheaper? Or just the fact that it's 120hz?
post #5 of 1131
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfoig View Post

Yes, and I'd want 2 or 3 of them. Regular price on these shipped on eBay is 360-400. Why is the group buy still 400 dollars? Should the benefit be that it's cheaper? Or just the fact that it's 120hz?

400~ is just my guessing, there have not been set any price.
but this is just to see if people are willing to buy.

also the 120hz boards is more expencive. thats why the 370$ monitors on ebay only do 60hz now.
price might be better then 400 on a group buy. hopefully!

but still its a great deal!
post #6 of 1131
Keep in mind 100hz is only possible on Nvidia right now. ATI/AMD 85hz max. They are capable of 120hz but 400mhz RAMDAC limitations on graphics cards does not allow that refresh rate on native 2560x1440 resolution.
post #7 of 1131
I'd love to get in on this!
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(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500K @ 4.7 GA-Z68XP-UD4 HIS 7950 IceQ Turbo 8gb G. Skill Ripjaws 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
2x 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 RAID 0 2TB WD Caviar Green 120GB Corsair Force SSD Noctua NH-U12P SE2 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 24" BenQ White Ducky Shine w/ Cherry MX Browns Corsair TX-850 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
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post #8 of 1131
I will definitely take 3 for surrounds!! thumb.gif thanks for the poll!
post #9 of 1131
I have said this before, but for a 100hz monitor, I'll say it again:

313
post #10 of 1131
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/61830124/Spec.%20sheet%20for%20Shimian%20series.pdf

This might be interesting. This is basically the same monitor with a different name. SHOULD be 250 dollars USD if buying 100 pieces.
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